An Open Letter to Elise Chapman – Bendigo Councillor

BONUS

Before you read on see if you can name the Bendigo Bigots

Let’s put some names to this unprepossessing bunch of Strayan bigots

rednecks1

Muslims In Australia Since the 1600s

open letter

Dear Ms. Chapman,

I was greatly disturbed by your comments as quoted in The Age on June 20, 2014:

  1.  “Every day in the media there are cases of people being raped by Muslims … and there is no doubt a mosque would see more Muslims move to Bendigo.”
  2.  “Islam is not a race though and I am not racist.”

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29 thoughts on “An Open Letter to Elise Chapman – Bendigo Councillor

  1. I guess it’s fortunate for Ms Chapman that she didn’t challenge Islam’s attitude toward homosexuality because no doubt there would have been a nuanced response to that assault on the religion of love and tolerance as well.

    • Rest assured that the Elise Chapmans of this world hate gays and lesbians as well. Bigotry tends to affect the whole of what passes for a brain with bigots.

      As for religion we note that the “official” lines on homosexuality for all large faiths are bigoted and intolerant. That includes Buddhism, at least as far as the Tibetan variety goes – even the Dalai Lama managed to gobsmack his many admirers with homophobic comments.

      However we note also that many individuals and congregations of observant Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists are very supportive of issues such as equal rights for LGBTI folk and are supportive of same sex marriage. The reality is more than what is written in scriptures or practised as law in backward societies, including the backward society that is Australia under Abbott.

    • Our “house” is fine. We do not tolerate racists, bigots, misogynists or homophobes.

      Nor do we indulge in post-modern navel gazing. We just get out and do it.

      Don’t ever be fooled that this bunch of Muslim-haters is driven by concern for the rights of LGBTI people, women or any other oppressed group. They are driven by the fact they hate and fear Muslims like their antecedents hated and feared Jews and Catholics.

      Peel back the layers and it’s good ole racism, cloaked in bigotry and reeking of white supremacy.

        • There are more christians in this country that are against gay marriage than there are muslims, should they “get their house in order” as well before they go and build more buildings of “worship”?

          See the thing is, you can’t ask for religious freedom without allowing it for everyone. People are allowed to think what they like, and others are allowed to fight their intolerance, all within the confines of the law of course.

        • LiSao,

          I expect anyone who wants to have their views ‘respected’ needs to first ensure they aren’t persecuting other people and making their lives a misery. I don’t have an issue about the flavour of the person’s religion. All religions that make claims of superiority over other people are just as despicable, whether they are a minority view or a majority view. To that end, I will gladly tell any member of an Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever faith community where to stick their bigoted views if they want me to respect them while they think I should be denied equal rights before the law.

          Do you have a problem with that?

          Michael.

        • Not really, what I do have a problem with is that it’s the bendigo bigots are the ones that are doing the disrespecting. The muslims just want a place to worship, they are not trying to stop others from preaching or worshiping.

          “I expect anyone who wants to have their views ‘respected’ needs to first ensure they aren’t persecuting other people and making their lives a misery.” that’s fine, what are the islamic community actually doing that are disrespecting anyone else? Are they making outrageous claims that have little basis in reality? Are they generalising all christian’s and catholics by the actions of their priests or by some little used unknown quote from their holy book? No, it is you “talking about the representative of the islamic community”. What have these people done other than wanting some out of the way place to worship? they are not being intolerant, the bendigo bigots are.

          Show me where the bendigo muslims have said anything that slightly resembles anything intolerant? Or are you just making generalisations about these people because of their religion and the actions of others?

        • You’re putting words in my mouth. I responded to the letter this story was about. It was written by a person of Islamic faith. He was defending his faith. His faith is 100% intolerant of homosexuality. I have no time for people who defend this. Or people who defend those people. As for the people of Bendigo, I have no idea what they do or don’t want because they didn’t write a letter saying anything, but if they uphold their Islamic beliefs, then they’re no better than the person whose letter I’m referring to.

        • Michael, I’m confused here. You say you believe that anyone who expects to have their views respected should ensure they are not persecuting any other group or making anyone else’s life a misery. Fair enough, got that. You also say that knowing someone respects you is a prerequisite to you respecting them, fair enough also.

          However, you have on this blog written many hate filled gendered terms, insulting women in general, and Julia Gillard in particular, using the justification of only “it makes me feel good”, and “I need to say hate filled things to convince moderate people to listen to moderate people who share my beliefs”

          If we use your logic that the only people who deserve to be respected are those who do not in anyway attempt to cause others pain…wouldn’t that mean you believe you do not deserve respect? Or are you being a complete hypocrite, in expecting everyone to respect you no matter what you do, and refusing to give any respect in turn until that respect is given (also a sure fire way to show that no one will ever respect anyone, ever)

        • There you go again, you assume that they hate homosexuals. Technically according to christian texts they do as well. I haven’t put words into your mouth at all, I am just rehashing what you have said. “His faith is 100% intolerant of homosexuality” That is your assumption, it is possible to adhere to only certain parts of a faith and reject the more extreme, hence the need for the term moderate. You are making the assumption based on his faith without asking the person what they believe, that is bigoted behaviour.

          The people who protest the mosque in bendigo have made their opinions clear.

        • LiSao,

          I don’t need to “assume” what people of Islamic faith think about homosexuality. They are 100% intolerant of it. It is abhorrent to them. However I have no idea what any Islamic person thinks of homosexual people. That is a different and unrelated issue and I have made no statement on the subject. So please do not put words in my mouth because you are twisting my words and misrepresenting my perspective.

          Thank you.

        • Wait…so there’s a difference between people of the Islamic faith and Islamic people? Looks just like a word swap around to me, next you be telling me there’s a difference between Christians and people of the Christian faith?

        • Of course there’s a difference. Some people will identity as being Muslim or Jewish or Christian but they won’t actively advocate the beliefs of the faith they identify with. Then there are those who actively pursue the beliefs of their faith. That is a universal phenomenon. Not sure why it surprises.

        • So to be clear, a person of the Islamic faith preaches, and tries to teach about their faith, an Islamic person is someone who is a Muslim but has it as their private faith?

          I think the term you are using is proselytizing and non proselytizing. I have never ever heard someone try and distinguish between “Islamic people” and “People of the Islamic faith” before. I mean, think about the language you are using. A person of the Islamic faith-how are they not Islamic people? An Islamic person, are you saying they don’t follow the Islamic faith?

          Incidentally, since we’re talking, how have you made sure you are not persecuting other people or making other’s lives miseries before you ask for respect? Because you’ve been very disrespectful to others on this blog before, using the justification of “It makes me feel good” so your declaration that you have no time for people who do not respect others does smack a bit of hypocrisy.

        • I know that there are people who identify as Jewish who are anything but religious. I know there are similarly people who are Islamic who do not practice their faith.

          As for Christians, bah. Most do not give a fuck about their faith.

        • Because Jewishness is a cultural identity, not just a religious identity. This is why you hear of “Secular Jews” and “Religious Jews” And even the religious Jews do not try to convert anyone-it’s not a recruiting religion.

          So now the definition is “An Islamic person does not practise their faith, and a person of the Islamic faith does”-what does “practicing their faith” even mean? It sounds like, again, you’re splitting hairs to make a false distinction so it seems like you’re not trying to generalise an entire faith. And now you’re doing it to Christians too-apparently you know about most Christian’s faith too.

          I’ll ask again, since we’re talking, how have you made sure you are not persecuting other people or making other’s lives miseries before you ask for respect? Because you’ve been very disrespectful to others on this blog before, using the justification of “It makes me feel good” so your declaration that you have no time for people who do not respect others does smack a bit of hypocrisy.

        • “before you ask for respect?” I don’t ask anyone to respect me. In fact I don’t care if people don’t respect me. What I do ask for though is to be treated the same as everyone else and not to be discriminated against by anyone, whether they be a prime minister or a religious minority.

          Personally, I feel you dislike me, and I really don’t care an iota if you do. Bring it on I say. Hate me for all I care. You sound like a privileged prig, so what does it matter to me.

        • A inaccurate presumption, you would be offended if we called all Australians racist, bigoted, white supremacists, why do you think regular brown folk wouldn’t also be? Are you representative of everything that is wrong with Australia? Or do you consider yourself beyond reproach?

          I find it astounding that people cannot see the failure in their logic when they condemn all muslims by the action of one (which you have done), then get upset when others do the same to you. Me thinks you need to get your house in order first.

        • I find it astounding that people cannot see the failure in their logic when they condemn all muslims by the action of one (which you have done), then get upset when others do the same to you. Me thinks you need to get your house in order first.

          I did no such thing. All I have done is say that if a person wants their ideology to be respected, they must be open to having that ideology criticised too, because unless they are free of intolerance, they are no better than the person they are pointing the finger at.

        • Oh I’m sorry, I thought you posted a link about ONE person and said it represented, quote, “The authentic values of his faith”. You did do such a thing.

        • Right, so they’re bigots and intolerant because you think they’re “probably” upto something..

        • And there you go “Assume”. So what is fair? You assume because they adhere to Islam that they hate homosexuals, so we can fairly assume because you are an Australian you are a bigoted individual who hates brown people who gets drunk and abuses individuals on the bus and if you are a Crhsitian you believe in stoning women, killing your first born and other nefarious passages from Leviticus? Or do you finally see the absurdity in assuming anything about an individual based on their religious preferences?

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