When Australia’s first Muslim front-bencher was sworn in – hand on Qur’an – some went to his Facebook page to express outrage
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 2 July 2013 12.53 AEST
The historic swearing in of Australia’s first Muslim frontbencher as a parliamentary secretary has been marred by vitriolic and bigoted abuse posted on his Facebook page.
Ed Husic, federal Labor MP for Chifley, was appointed on Monday as parliamentary secretary to the prime minister, Kevin Rudd, and parliamentary secretary for broadband.
Husic, the son of Bosnian migrants, was the first MP to be sworn in to federal parliament by the chief justice of the high court with his hand on a copy of the Qur’an.
The religious text belonged to Husic’s father.
The governor general, Quentin Bryce, said at the time, “It is a great day for multiculturalism.”
However, on Monday evening and Tuesday morning Husic’s Facebook page was flooded with posts from people – some using pseudonyms – expressing their outrage.
Most were written under a post from the Blacktown, NSW MP, which read, “Proud to have been chosen as the PM’s parliamentary secretary – and over the moon to be parliamentary secretary for broadband.”
“This is disgusting. How dare you disregard Australia’s constitution like that. Absolutely sickening. Do we begin the push for sharia law now? Not at all happy. Definitely will not be voting for you,” wrote Carrie Forrest.
Another, who went by the name Gypsy Moon, wrote: “Why did you insist on being sworn in with a Koran? I am offended that any federal member would not pledge allegiance to our country and queen, [but] to a pseudo religion that has its own political system and law agenda.”
However, between the attacks were messages of support.
“Still think you should [have] got a cabinet position mate. But congrats, you deserve it! It’s sad these so-called Christians are using the Bible to inspire hatred. Hypocrites much?” wrote Adam Edward Owsinski.
At the time of the swearing in, Husic downplayed his religion but conceded it was potentially a significant moment for the Muslim community.
“Given my background, there are some people taking a small slice of pride or happiness,” he said.
‘Shame, shame, shame’: Australia’s first Muslim frontbencher abused for taking oath on Koran
Now for some of the rest of the hate comments
Anna Dean has learnt nothing. By the way moron, there is no Constitutional mandate for the manner in which MPs are sworn in.
The Government takes its lead from the courts in this matter. Service personnel and judges also take an oath (or affirmation if they are non-believers)
Carrie Forrest underwent a miraculous transformation today. After some unwelcome media attention she morphed into Carrie Strong.
What a shame she couldn’t change the Facebook URL. And what a shame she cannot not vote for Ed Husic – because she lives in Adelaide.
Here’s Carrie Strong Forrest or Carrie Forrest Strong.
Please point to the part of the Constitution which states that Australia is a Christian country. Please point to the part of the Constitution which states that Australia is a country of any particular religion.
Now read this
Now Bill you can shut up!
We are not aware that Al-Qaeda terrorists swear oaths but obviously Clara has some inside info. Maybe the AFP would like to talk to her?
Oh look here’s Bill yet again.
What makes Bill think he speaks for the Australian people? He looks like yet another failed bigot to us.
The dog is cute.
This fake better go tell the local courts then. No doubt she (?) is very familiar with them.
And this one alleges he is Aboriginal. We doubt it very much.
We don’t care whether you are Anglo, Aboriginal or purple with pink spots. If you are a racist or bigot you don’t belong here!
Brainless bogot “Petal Blossom” hides out in a number of anti-Muslim hate groups. Perhaps she should rename herself Toxic Weed. It would be most appropriate.
“Petal Blossom” is Lulu Gray from around Adelaide, a great fan of the street rabble that is the ADL.
Say hi to Lulu. She really doesn’t look like that.
We are fairly sure where Andrew likes to put his hand after seeing his profile pic. Here he is.
You actually ARE hate-filled bigots.
Here is someone else who won’t be voting for Ed. Why? She lives in the Northern Territory and her business is here.
Ed was born here in Australia so wtf is Julie Smith going on about???
Ppl like her really piss me off… if they cant insult they always revert to the “go back to where u came from” shit…
These people are an absolute fucking joke. Bunch of morons, on a day he should be able to enjoy an accomplishment he’s gotta put up with comments from a section of the community who are comparable to a liver spot on a dead mans balls.
this man has done nothing wrong, i wish they would see what the LNP have in store for the population, then they would have reason to be upset.
Each & every one of these morons aren’t exactly intellectual giants, are they? Their cognitive powers are minimal & they are so consumed with anger they are blind to everything that doesn’t suit their current bigotry. Hate to think what they teach their children, if they have any.
What on earth do they think Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, atheists, agnostics, Jews, Jedis, as well as Muslims swear an oath on?? Good grief, what part of we live in a secular society don’t they understand? These are people who have limited intelligence & lack any real understanding or knowledge of the world we live in. Cannot imagine what it must be like to be so constantly enraged that they believe any crap, without critical thought, about the latest object of their need to hate. Shock jock fodder is all they are.
I’ve spoken with a few of these crazies, and let’s be clear, they are crazy. Anna literally calls people who ask for evidence of her claims of “Muslims are all evil, even babies” robots.
Petal was trolling the ASRC page a few weeks back (No longer thankfully), and saw any disagreement with her views as “Bullying”, She also believed I worked for a secret organisation, with ulterior motives, just because I disagreed with her.
But Trinity, who is meant to be a she by the way, is the craziest of the lot. She was also trolling the ASRC facebook page, and came up with crazy rumours about Muslims (They’re all wfie beaters, asylum seekers are raping children on boats, taqqiyaetc) and when pressed for evidence she claims:
-To have completed a Bachelor of War History, Masters in Religious Science, a PHD in Archaeology, and is a fully trained Psychologist (Which at my estimate would take 11 years of university study full time)
-To have worked in every war torn country. Not just some, not even most-but all of them.
-To work in a secret organisation that allows for her to meet Muslim women, and find out about her rape claims, which are otherwise secret.
Naturally she refused to discuss this any further when asked for details (Even though two of these degrees don’t appear to exist). When asked where she got her defintiion of taqqiya (The “You can lie whenever you want” definition rather than “You can lie to save your life”) she provided a source, which was copied word for word from an anti-islamic site, including analysis and (See Additional comments below). She denied this, stating it came from an islamic source, but when pressed said that maybe she got it from a former Muslim who may have copied it from an anti-Muslim website.
She is craaaaaaazy. And probably has a few sockpuppets.
As far as I know only Shi’as are allowed taqiyyah in order to save their lives. I think Sunnis aren’t even allowed to do that. I could be wrong but in any case this ‘taqiyyah’ thing is thrown around as if all Muslims are continuously duplicitous.
Howard started this racism crap. Keating said that he didn’t have anything else to offer but I’m not so sure. I think it’s part of the old divide and rule mentality. He bashes refugees, Muslims etc., gets everyone in a hate fest and then sells off everything and introduces WorkChoices. It’s a good tactic and there’s little doubt that Tony is trying for the same.
I just hope hope hope that these criminals are not successful.
I take the approach of trying to understand why this resentment of Muslims exists, ask the people what is the three main things, the three worst things they don’t like about Muslims and try and get a picture of why these tensions are out there.
For many people September 11 is top. September 11 is the whole reason people went into Afghanistan to stop the Taliban. September 11 was the start, it was an attack on innocent people, no other way to justify it. Terrorists or Muslim extremists like to justify their actions by saying that civilians have been killed in Afghanistan. Well that is a poor justification, firstly September 11 happened before the London Street attack and other terrorist events committed by Muslims, so that is an excuse and the point to raise is there is no justification. The Taliban have killed and suppressed many Afghans, thousands. Afghan soldiers have turned on NATO troops and all sorts of things like that have occurred, but you don’t see any white “terrorist” events against Muslims. You see more verbal stuff, people will express their outrage on facebook or similar. I wouldn’t like to see free speech taken away, but people need to be careful about what they say, especially if it is completely out of line comments, and nearly everyone knows where the boundaries are when it comes to this sort of thing. It’s one thing to say that you don’t want Muslim immigration to Australia and another to write some violent and completely out of line comment. I think that there is a difference, and most people know the difference.
Other people might be opposed to the religion of even moderate Muslims which involves things such as girls covering up, different food requirements to comply with the religion and many others. They may not see Islam to be compatible with our Australian society.
So there are a number of reasons and it’s good to have a little understanding from these people, they tend to be the loose cannon types that say the silly things, but they are saying these things for a reason. They didn’t just have a momentary lapse and come out with it, there is some greater reasoning behind it. I always encourage people who have extreme views to consider the often greater effectiveness of a more moderate collective view, and I know you are in favor of being more moderate also JM. Sometimes moderate policies in politics and laws are not always the way to go and don’t achieve a lot, so there is times for each instance of reasoning. When it comes to Asylum seekers I believe in the firm approach and protecting Australian waters. taking away all incentive for people to get on a boat bound for Australian waters. When it comes to Muslims I take a moderate approach, the fact is we have Muslim people living in Australia, and many are nice people who obey the law and want little more than a home to live in and a good education for their children, and most of the other things that all families desire. I’ve talked to Muslims before, and I don’t have any problems with them. That doesn’t mean I agree with all aspects of their religion, but in general I have not been affected by them at all. I do however share the same outrage that other fellow Australians feel when they hear about violent terrorist attacks in the name of religion. It’s normal to feel concern about that. Some people respond in an irresponsible manner on social media and that is where the problem starts, it’s there for all to see, and at the end of the day it can be quite ugly and achieve nothing.
It’s good to think things through. But fear of Muslims existed before September 11, just as terrorism and persecution of Islamic nations occurred before the invasion of Afghanistan (Palestine has been a long issue for the Muslim world, long long before any of us knew where Afghanistan was). No attack, no war, no bombing has been done because one side just wanted to do some evil-no one in these situations thinks of themselves as the “Bad Guy”
Incidentally, the initial response to the invasion was positive, particularly in Afghanistan. you’re right-no one likes the Taliban. But since arriving, troops haven;t been acting much better. Innocent people have died, not connected to the Taliban or terrorist groups, because they were in the wrong place. And that’s what gets people angry.
” Afghan soldiers have turned on NATO troops and all sorts of things like that have occurred, but you don’t see any white “terrorist” events against Muslims.”
You do, y’know. After the Woolwich attack two Muslim schools were blown up. We have US Drones, killing innocent civilians who get in the way, and the Kandahar massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar_massacre)
True, they tend to go less reported. As do all deaths involving Afghanis, and muslims in general (The same month as the Woolwich street attack, an elderly Muslim man was beaten to death by four skinheads. CCTV has images, no arrests have been made-and funnily enough even though this occurred in a public place, no international news has been made). But that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
You say you want to understand why people have these beliefs, which is great. But understand that it’s not just the extremist racists posting death threats who have legitimate grievances, all extremists have some sort of legitimate grievances, or at least legitimate to them. And then they take this legitimate grievance, whether that be “I oppose terrorism conducted by Muslims” or “I oppose Muslims being killed because they are Muslims” and extend them to the extreme belief, often helped by hate-filled people enjoying a sense of power over them (See the leaders of ADL, EDL, Al Quada, and all defunct parties and terrorist groups, who enjoy an often cultish appreciation from their members), to the unreasonable belief of “I must punish all Muslims” or “I must punish all Westerners”
In both cases the source of the grievance may be reasonable, but the extremist extension of it is not. But what do we do from here? Simply saying “I understand, but not all are like that” is not going to help anyone because
1- There are just as many people out there willing to aggravate and extend an individuals fear into hatred, just as you are trying to moderate it, and our minds prefer something to startle over something that sedates.
2- You’re a stranger to them, and who listens to strangers over the Internet?
Change does not occur by reasonable discussion, unfortunately, especially not online. It occurs through direct experience, and sadly there are fewer and fewer chances for this to happen. But, as it was with other generations, this changes through generations. Kids go to school together, go to Uni together, get work together, and make connections their parents never would make.
Incidentally, as I posted on the other page, where are you going to turn Asylum seeker boats to, considering that Indonesia has stated they will not accept the boats? Considering that Tony Abbot has refused to ask Indonesia about this, it suggests he doesn’t have an answer either. And why do we need to have a hard line approach, considering our asylum seeker intake is much lower than most countries, particularly in Europe, yet our response is much harsher.
So the politician is a Muslim, and some people posted some comments ok yes I identify the problem here.
Swearing in, the guy seems decent I don’t think he would get the job otherwise, but yes usually it is sworn in on the Queen or God so yeah it’s a challenge, but again I try and understand why the people writing comments are concerned and outraged. I m not even sure what my opinion is here I’d have to have a long think about it considering all sides and aspects.
I have removed the irrelevant content you posted. One more such post and the spam bin awaits you.
The reason people get annoyed is that once people have a dislike for the unlike, they object to all involvement of the unlike. A Muslim doing anything is offensive to an Islamaphobe.
Incidentally, it is usually sworn on the Bible, Torah, Quran or nothing at all. It is sworn to the Queen, not on her (She tends to be busy and doesn’t like being sworn on) and is quite specifically not swearing to God, as Australia is a secular country (We just had an atheist Prime Minister, remember?)
Ok point taken, cheers for the heads up.
Julie Smith has taken down her business Facebook page after the most thumbed up message was about her comments on this article.
Honestly when I heard this news I first thought “”Bet the racists are going to complain about this…”” Low and behold.
Wow yet again TAB’S sticking up for the camel rooting suicide bombers they support.
You’re an idiot, that’s all.
You are the only one rooting camels. Has to be some explanation for your stupidity.
Idiots would shit their pants then knowing that in every court room in Australia there is a bible, a Quran, Torah, and a couple of other tomes from religions I can’t think of the name at the moment for witnesses to be sworn before they give testimony, whether that be criminal or civil procedures. The presiding magistrate or judge will always ask if the person want to take an oath (on a religious text) or affirmation (no references to religion), they both however stand under the Queen as head of state and all people who give an oath or affirmation understand that they are swearing to the truth of the matter before the Queens representative, the judge or magistrate and the oath they give is purely to inform the court the person will tell the truth on pain of his oath being worth nothing. For people with a conscience that means a lot, for those without a conscience who lie as a matter of course, there is perjury and contempt if they are proven to have deliberately sworn an oath and reneged on it. Most of the bogans however go to courts of summary jurisdiction where they plead at the first mention and have the matter dealt with then and there. They get their penalty and wander next door to put it on a time to pay scheme and forget all about it.
Having had 12 years of church schooling inflicted on me and all the associated attempts at indoctrination (some temporarily successful) church services etc, I’m concerned that I cannot remember a book in the bible that mentioned Queen Elizabeth 11, or any other British monarch. What have they to do with each other?
Inflicted on you David? Are you trying to tell us something?
Sorry I’ve taken so long to reply, Yobbo, I was too busy laughing hysterically at your rapier-like wit. Positively Swiftian in it’s insight and subtlety. Every time you put fingers to keyboard your stupidity is confirmed.
Constitution eh? Obviously they didn’t get to s116.
“The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.”
this should be put up anywhere and everywhere for all bogots to read. Sick of the complete ignorance in society of our constitution and what it actually says.
“But Trinity, who is meant to be a she by the way, is the craziest of the lot. She was also trolling the ASRC facebook page, and came up with crazy rumours about Muslims (They’re all wfie beaters, asylum seekers are raping children on boats, taqqiyaetc) and when pressed for evidence she claims:”
Would you now like to post your own qualification with regards to be able to determine someones mental capibilities ? or is it the same skills you use to determine that every Asylum seeker is a legitimate refugee and should be able to go straight into the community ?
This BLOG has to be the worst case of ‘ one sided and BIAS’ opinion of someone that obviously has to use others to express themselves.
Only selected parts of screenshot conversations and so on. Disgusting and disgracefull.
FYI JM is qualified in sociology and psychology. He works with asylum seekers.
Far from blocking “freedom of speech” we give the cretins what they want by re-publishing their vile rants.
We give normal people what they want by giving them the opportunity to criticise and rubbish those rants without running into harassment.
Hence everyone is happy, especially us.
And while we are at it are to explain why a NSW Federal MP would concern a Victorian like yourself? After all leaving aside your trolling of his Facebook page it isn’t as if you can vote for him.
We noticed that just about all the ugly comments came from interstate. It seems Ed Husic is very popular in his electorate and does a great job. He is also bringing the NBN to a part of Sydney which has long been bedevilled with slow speeds and telecommunications black spots.
Far far more worthy a man than the trolls who intruded on his page.
“Would you now like to post your own qualification with regards to be able to determine someones mental capibilities ?”
Certainly. I have completed a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Psychology at Monash University, the (Post)Graduate Diploma in Psychology at Deakin University, and the Masters of Social Work at the University of Melbourne. Three real qualifications from three real Universities, that totally have websites and everything!
“or is it the same skills you use to determine that every Asylum seeker is a legitimate refugee and should be able to go straight into the community ?”
Never said that. All asylum seekers need to have their claims processed. All asylum seekers should have security and health checks before being released into the community while their refugee claims are assessed.
But keep on beating up that straw man. I hear it’s easier.
“This BLOG has to be the worst case of ‘ one sided and BIAS’ opinion of someone that obviously has to use others to express themselves.”
Whereas the anti-Muslim pages and website you frequent are completely impartial, right?
And has to use “Others” to express “Themselves”? What does that even mean? Did you read it as you wrote it or just shouted random words and hoped they make sense?
“Only selected parts of screenshot conversations and so on. Disgusting and disgracefull.”
Oh, I’m sorry, did you want everything you have ever said being posted here, including everyone else’s responses?
Incidentally-“Disgraceful” is a word “Disgracefull” is not. Is your language software playing up again?
“Trinity” may care to note that your studies qualify you for membership of the Australian Psychological Society, hence able to practice as a psychologist if you wish to do so.
Hence able to comment on the manifest psychological disturbances of racists and bigots.
Amusing also that its supposedly a blog page of freedom of speech yet it is moderated. Once again the irony and hypocrisy is outstanding.
Freedom of speech for humans. Not bigoted trolls with nothing to contribute.
So anybody that has a view different from yours is a bigoted troll with nothing to contribute?
People who hate entire groups without any reason or evidence are bigoted trolls, who have little to contribute.
Incidentally, freedom of speech doesn’t equal freedom to say whatever you want unmoderated on a website. Just like if you start screaming hatred in my living room I’m allowed to tell you to leave, the admins here can choose who gets to speak, and what gets to be said on their own blogs.
And before you complain-the anti-islamic blogs, the racist blogs, etc, operate on the EXACT same principles.
Most of the time yes.
Wait…..so freedom of speech means no moderation?
Great, well we have freedom of speech in this country, so I’m about to go and scream “Fire” in a crowded auditorium.
Incidentally, it’s not a freedom of speech group-it’s an anti-bigotry and prejudice group.
Your insistence on labeling people as bigots is subjective and in itself prejudicial. Perhaps you might want to consider the possibility you are wrong and rather than start labeling people bring something constructive? Unless you haven’t got anything in which case that explains your resorting to name calling…
How is it prejudiced to call someone bigoted? And I am happy to consider being incorrect-I often do rethink my views, when I am presented with contrary reliable evidence.
That hasn’t happened yet Luke.
And I do enjoy bringing constructive suggestions. And have-to Trinity herself on more than one occasion. Do you have specific things you’d like constructive suggestions for?
JM seems to mean ‘ selective and bias ‘ comments only. Just like as in the ARSC page you mentioned where anyone that may have a respectful yet oposite view of someone is instantly banned after a barrage of abuse by those supposedly more tolerant. Prejudice goes to ways , those who are against something and those who against those that voice an objection. So many need to look at themselves before judging others.
“may have a respectful yet oposite view”
Respectful view? Trinity, you insulted and made false accusations against everyone who disagreed with you.
Mind Made Up , you call me a bigoted troll , this is not supposed to be offensive and just as belittling as anything posted on the pages ? The hypocrisy of so many is unfathomable. Seems that those that cannot refute a fact , or have not enough knowledge of a particular subject are the ones that continuously turn to name calling and personal slurs more often than not. Just an observation. You have posted my responce to a particular abusive comment aimed at me but did not post that comment that involked that responce. Manipulation of conversations is not only childish but extremely pathetic.
Refuses to consider anyone else’s views? Yep.
Makes up stories to denigrate those different to her? Yep.
Lies about herself to make herself seem important? Yep.
How is bigoted, or troll, incorrect statements to put here?
“The hypocrisy of so many is unfathomable.”
Because apparently calling one person a bigot for being bigoted is the same as calling all Muslims evil because they are Muslim. Trinity lives in the world where you will not be judged by the quality of your character, your actions, but by your faith, and your faith alone.
” Seems that those that cannot refute a fact , ”
What facts are you presenting that are needing refuting? The comments on this page show you call Ed Husic as defying the constitution by swearing in on the Quran. As the above posts show, the constitution actually forbids the reliance of any particular religious test in order to hold public office.
” or have not enough knowledge of a particular subject are the ones that continuously turn to name calling and personal slurs more often than not.”
Yes, now we go back to classic Trinity. She knows more about Islam than anyone-even Muslims, even Imams. She’s learnt the dark truth from her many qualifications from Universities that can’t be named (Voldermort University, Nyarlothotep College, those sort of places), and from secret work that she can’t describe in anyway (“A job so secret I can’t tell you anything about it” – the best name for a Centrelink payment I have ever seen).
Trinity, it’s been a few weeks since you last tried this. Do you have anything else to add apart from “I know things based on evidence I can’t show you, experience I can’t describe, and qualifications you have to trust me actually exist”? Have you found that “It’s the truth, trust me” doesn’t really work to convince anyone?
“You have posted my responce to a particular abusive comment aimed at me but did not post that comment that involked that responce.”
Trinity apparently has got a PHD, yet uses the following words:
Responce, not response
Involked, not invoke
She has previously stated this is due to her using special voice recognition software which messes up from time to time. A software that invents words.
Anyway, what was the comment that invoked your response of
“Ed Husic is defying the constitution of Australia” (This is a summary of what you said, I’m not writing the whole diatribe), and
“You can’t call be UnAustralian, I’m Aboriginal, and a scientist, and have met every Muslim in the world, and can fly” (Again, summarising)
Yet it is US that are called the HATERS ! Take a good look at yourselves.
Please tell us all how you are not being hate-filled to Muslims in general and Ed Husic in particular. In specifics, tell us how this comment: “It’s a disgrace that you go against the constitution in favour of an ideological belief” is not hate-filled at all, but actually a loving statement.
You tell me how I am by stating facts and not uneductaed assumptions. I am NOT attacking Muslims or a Muslim. I am stating facts of Islam of which so many of you seem to be oblivious of the difference except when trying to justify an act of terrorism. ‘Ideological belief ‘ of which there are several, now would you carry on so much if it was a naturalist that swore in on the ‘ book of fairies ‘ naked ? If you want to quote me then do so by all means, but at least get it all and not just the bits you want to try and use because you cannot find anything to debunk the truth. I have also said on that sight that …. ‘ Swearing in on the Constitution itself should be enough for the oath’ …. meaning that not even the Bible should be required. Husic also put the Qu’ran in his ‘ LEFT ‘ hand which again is disrespectful to Islam. As a moderate ‘ non practicing Muslim ‘ this is not surprising but demeans the whole reason for him using the Qu’ran in the first place.
So Trinity, what is your goal?
Obviously an own one admin 😉
“I am NOT attacking Muslims or a Muslim.”
Are you telling us that you were not attacking Ed Husic with your above comments?
” ‘Ideological belief ‘ of which there are several, now would you carry on so much if it was a naturalist that swore in on the ‘ book of fairies ‘ naked ?”
So, swearing on a book recognised by a mainstream religion is now the same as being naked now?
Kinda makes nudity a bit less naughty. Shame on you.
To answer the question, I would have no problem with a person swearing on anything they believe in. Though I do believe they should dress for the occasion.
“‘ Swearing in on the Constitution itself should be enough for the oath’ …. meaning that not even the Bible should be required”
Oh, so you weren’t attacking Ed Husic. You were attacking all people who chose to use religious texts for their oaths, were you? Naturally you have some evidence that you were?
“. Husic also put the Qu’ran in his ‘ LEFT ‘ hand which again is disrespectful to Islam.”
Wait…..so you’re not condemning Husic for putting his religion above his belief in the constitution, you’re condemning him for being disrespectful to Islam? I don’t think you actually know what you mean, Trinity.
I’ll repeat, are the comments you directed to Ed Husic for his sin of swearing an oath to the constitution of Australia hate filled, or loving towards Ed Husic?
I guess what I am trying to say is that we should not ignore some of the cultural practices of Muslims (which occurs predominantly in the Middle East) I don’t think you can have a discussion on Islam or Muslims without at least acknowledging that these are some of the things that people have deep concerns over, and these public outburst are often pertaining to these often somewhat founded concerns, which are often simply ignored because they are possibly “culturally sensitive”.
Very reassured to see that you JM are opposed to underage marriage and female circumcision. Great to see we are all on the same page there.
Umm, Allen, this comment was actually directed towards Trinity. Why are you responding to it with “What I’m trying to say….”
And true, there are practices occurring within the islamic community that we should be concerned of, just as there are practices within all communities we should be concerned about. The law should not be put aside because a criminal thinks what he does is okay by his standards.
And while the issues of child marriage and FGM need to be responded to through law, I think they are tools being used by many bigots, rather than actual causes of their hatred. And I believe this, because firstly these crimes do not effect them in anyway, and their solutions would make everything worse.
I mean, FGM and child marriage are abhorrent, and are strongly punished in Australia. But the people harmed by both acts are Muslim women, not non-Muslim women. Even if both problems were widespread, the ADL membership would not be effected in anyway.
And their solution to this is “We need to stop Muslim migration, encourage muslims who are here to leave and return to Islamic countries, forcibly remove etc” – which is literally the worst thing that could happen. As you’ve pointed out, in Australia we have laws punishing child marriage and FGM. Other countries either do not have laws, or these laws are not enforced.
So the ADL’s answer to the problem of child marriage and FGM is to deport or encourage to deport the only possible victims in these crimes to a country where they are less likely to be protected, and more likely to be harmed by such acts.
So what “cultural practices” do you not like which Australian-born Muslims do? Why don’t you tell these people what you disapprove of about their lives.
Trinity your own uneductaed assumptions is proof you are in fact attacking Muslims or a Muslim and not stating facts of Islam.
2013.07.02 (Baghdad, Iraq) – A dozen patrons at an open-air market are blown to bits by Mujahideen bombers.
2013.07.02 (Kabul, Afghanistan) – Suicide truck bombers take out seven people.
2013.07.01 (Baqubah, Iraq) – Ten Iraqis sitting in a cafe are blown to bits by a Shahid suicide bomber.
2013.07.01 (Muqdadiyah, Iraq) – A Sunni suicide bomber self-detonates inside a Shiite mosque, sending two dozen worshippers straight to Allah.
2013.07.01 (Mishahada, Iraq) – Eight men are pulled out of their homes and executed by al-Qaeda.
2013.06.30 (Quetta, Pakistan) – Nine women and five children are among thirty innocents slain outside a Shia mosque by a Sunni suicide bomber.
Then you now have Churches being set alight in Egypt . You have a man in a wheelchair having his throat cut in England. Gangs of Muslims raping 14 to 16 year old girls just because they are non believe white girls … wheres all you concerns for this instead of a church with no one in it being attacked by Mulsims and trying to blame the EDL. Drone attacks are on innocents when those innocents are having weapons and fighters hiding in their homes. More innocents are killed daily, mulsims against muslim, than there has been from drone attacks.
World trouble spots often with autocratic, failing or unstable governments and many economic and social problems.
Other countries without Muslim majorities have these problems from time to time as well. Even seemingly stable emerging nations do. For instance what is happening in Brazil (a democracy with Latin America’s best-performing economy) at the moment? Don’t know? Well go find out.
Learn some fucking history and politics before you land here with your contextless cut-and-paste. This blog is not a platform for you.
And the EDL is a bunch of brainless street thugs. Its “leader” is back in prison (where he belongs)
And while we’re on the topic of EDL members-there is a quite prominent member who has been convicted for the kidnapping and sexual assault of a 7 year old girl. The EDL knows this, and are quite happy to keep on board.
Because paedophilia is okay if an EDL member does it, apparently:
What about the marriages to girls under the age of 10? Girls should be able to have some say in who they marry. They should be an age limit such as 16, so a girl is at least fully developed. Things such as young girls being married and genital mutilation I oppose. I know it is their culture, but I think in 2013 we are better than that, and the girls have some rights also. No girl wants their clitoris cut off. Unfortunately it’s difficult to say anything about cultural practices without being seen as imposing Western culture on them, but Western culture has made a lot of advancements even before the industrial revolution things were happening with windmills and dykes and legal systems. Our own culture also has undergone continual advancements, we used to hunt whales for eg but several species were nearly driven to extinction, so we know we need to be careful about that these days. We used to take all sorts of sea creatures and cut down trees for farmland, but we now know we need to look after the natural assets of the country and there are catch restrictions and national parks and efforts to increase forests, even man made and non native forests like pines help considerably with the environment and rain.
So we are open to advancement. Women are treated as equals and enjoy much improved rights as do homosexuals and lesbians and people of different race. From what I understand these days circumcision even of males is becoming less common, and this is advancement. We realise that it is not necessary and we are prepared to change. Personally I have not had the cut.
As to the age girls are married off at, that is something that is worth looking into. As to female circumcision, definitely this needs to stop. It’s not about asserting a cultural superiority, it’s more about helping them advance their culture.
Please provide documented evidence that underage girls are being married in Australia.
Please go to Google, Google “age of marriage” and read through the ages of marriage across provided there.
You may be interested in the fact that Scotland has a marriageable age of 15.
Please provide documented evidence that genital mutilation is routinely practised in Australia. Please provide documented evidence that such a practice is lawful in Australia.
If as I suspect you have nothing but your brainfarts to provide please fuck off and learn to debate with grownups.
Allen, I oppose forced marriages of any kind, particularly when one member is a child. I also oppose genital mutilation, which is not called for in the quran, and is more a cultural rather than religious act (With members of other religions practicing it).
“Unfortunately it’s difficult to say anything about cultural practices without being seen as imposing Western culture on them, ”
This is incorrect. Amnesty International condemns both practices. The UN condemns both practices. Many organisations in Australia who support migrants to coming to Australia oppose both actions, and many more.
We have laws in Australia, and migrants just as much as Australian born residents are required to follow them.
My point in posting the above article was to show that while the EDL, like its far less successful cousin the ADL, likes to spread fear that all Muslims are a threat to the nation’s children, they cheerfully overlook their own members who are proven risks to children. They do not care about the victim, they care about the perpetrator.
“but several species were nearly driven to extinction, so we know we need to be careful about that these days”
Ummm, no. Whales are still being hunted to extinction-and one of the biggest transgressors? Norway.
“We used to take all sorts of sea creatures and cut down trees for farmland, but we now know we need to look after the natural assets of the country and there are catch restrictions and national parks and efforts to increase forests, ”
Again, no. Old growth forests are still being cut down, fish are being driven to the point of extinction due to over fishing.
“Women are treated as equals ”
Except the whole “Unlike to be believed if they register a rape report”, being paid less by men, judged on their appearance, more likely to be physically and sexually abused in their lifetime than men…..Read the everyday sexism project (Australia) for more examples.
This….this is the problem I have with the idea of “We are the best, look at how terrible everyone else is” It involves emphasising and exaggerating problems in foreign countries so that problems in our own country don’t seem like things we need to deal with.
We complain about rape occurring in non-western countries, like India or Egypt, as we should, but then ignore the fact that the situation for a woman reporting a rape in Australia isn’t much better. We complain about spousal abuse in foreign countries, and ignore the fact that spousal abuse in Australia is just as much a problem. We say abuse of women is legitimised in other cultures, ignoring the fact that all spousal abusers legitimise their abuse….otherwise they wouldn’t abuse in the first place!
We all want women’s rights to increase, but going out there and saying “Okay, you’re doing it wrong, you need to be more like me” doesn’t convince anyone of anything. You know what does help? Education, improved access to supports, improved lifestyle. This is what gives power to women, gays, all groups, and power means choice.
Everyday sexism project:
Me- Allen“Unfortunately it’s difficult to say anything about cultural practices without being seen as imposing Western culture on them, ”
JM-This is incorrect. Amnesty International condemns both practices.
How can I be “incorrect”? I am merely saying that it’s a difficult thing to talk about. I didn’t know that Amnesty International was the opinion of all.. Should I say being seen by other cultures specifically Muslims as imposing Western culture on them and asserting a cultural superiority of Western culture.
If this was not the case, then I’m sure these cultures would be open to their own improvement in issues such as women’s rights. Our standards are after all based on the standards achieved in the Western world.
Mindmadeup – “Please provide documented evidence that underage girls are being married in Australia.”
Where at all do I mention that this is happening in Australia? I don’t.
Clearly I am referring to the cultural practices of the middle east. Australia currently has British and Western European laws and culture. The place was discovered and settled by the Dutch and English back in the 1600’s. The laws have always been based around Western Culture which doesn’t allow those sorts of marriages.
In the middle east these things occur. I’m not saying they occur in Australia, in the middle east they occur.
And we are talking about an Australian politician whose FB page was attacked by rabble. So stay on topic.
When was Australia ever settled by the Dutch?
Apologies. You said it was difficult to talk about cultural practices, which I took to mean “It is difficult for everyone” when you meant “It is difficult for me”
“If this was not the case, then I’m sure these cultures would be open to their own improvement in issues such as women’s rights.”
Well, there are plenty of Islamic feminist organisations in the Islamic world and the diaspora who are trying to do exactly that. The local organisation is the Australian Muslim Women’s Centre for human rights.
And I’m glad we agree that laws in Australia help prevent these sort of actions from occurring. Now all we need to do is allow the definition of refugee to change to include persecution of gender as a reason to seek asylum and we can really start helping the women of the world.
Yeah absolutely I think that is great that there are in fact feminist groups in the middle east. I have not heard a lot about them, but it is great to know that there is a push for woman’s rights in the middle east.
Certainly the only real improvement long term for the people as a whole would be improvement in women’s rights in the middle east. A few women coming to Australia as “refugees” because of women’s rights violations in their home country does not long term solve the situation for women in their home country. The real solution is women’s rights in the middle east.
The trouble with increasing refugees is that on a global scale and looking at the issues long term it is merely a band aid solution. You just can’t take in the sheer number of refugees to make an impact, and taking in sheer numbers puts enormous social pressures on Western countries with small populations such as Australia.
I see confidence in the fact that Muslim woman are making the brave move to push for greater woman’s rights in the Middle East. This is the direction with the greatest potential for positive change for millions of girls and women in Muslim countries. If men in these countries get on board also, they could make some positive and ensuring changes and the world’s people as a whole would be gratified at such positive outcomes.
And this has to do with Ed Husic…….how?
Oh wait, are you doing that thing where you respond to a person’s comment in a completely different location?
Were you responding to my response to Allen’s comments, while ignoring the vast majority of the comment (Something which you say is evil)?
Muslims, as well as non-muslims, are victims of terrorism worldwide, both by Muslim terrorists and non-muslim terrorists. Of course I am concerned about all these things. Doesn’t mean I can’t also condemn drone strikes who kill innocent people in order to hit a target (Though, apparently, according to you, drones knock individually on each neighbours doors and warn them about the bomb strike before killing their neighbour), attacks on muslim places of worship (Which you claim are actually all done by Muslims. You’ll have proof of that, of course), and misinformation spread by those who hate Muslims to encourage further hatred of them (See-all the claims you’ve ever made where we’re meant to rely on your invisible sources who cannot be named).
Bosnia is in Europe, but the people are Muslims. The Bosnian war is always used to show that white countries have the same problems of non whites and are just as violent and prone to war, but people fail to realise that Bosnia is a Muslim country. Whites against whites? The best is Northern Ireland and that is nothing compared to the violence of the middle east and other locations.
I’m trying to explain attitudes of “bigots” with regards to a muslim politician. I’m not really surprised by the comments at all.
Not all Bosnians are Muslims. Not even a majority of Bosnians are Muslim (It is the most common religion, but that’s still only 45% of the country). And the widespread genocide in the Bosnian war occurred by the Bosnian serbs against the Bosnian Muslim population.
White against white? True, it’s not as formalised, but there’s plenty of gun massacres around the world. We’re not at peace.
Yes totally agree, white countries such as America should be doing far more to stem gun violence. The gun laws in America are a disgrace and are highly irresponsible. One thing I can say about former prime minister John Howard is that he made the right call on tightening gun laws. I’d be happy if the laws were tighten further and extended to other weapons.
And once again, a simple google search reveals where Trinity gets all her research from.
Kindly explain, Trinity, why your description of Islamic terrorism attacks is the same description, matched word for word as this page:
If you are the expert on Islam as you say you are, why is your evidence always copied word for word from an anti-Islamic website?
ERRRR, wrong answer.
December 14 2012: 26 People, including 20 children shot dead in the USA.
June 8 2013: A gunmen kills 4 and wounds 5 in the USA
July 3, 2013: A gunman in the US opens fire in a shoping center, killing 13.
July 2, 2013: A gunman in the US opens fire in a walmart, killing several victims.
June 18 2013: A gunman kills 17 at a fathers day celebration, wounding 35 more:
and so on and so on.
Now, I don’t have a degree in psychology, I will admit that. What I do have is a degree in Engineering with a major in statistics. I also have a masters in transportation engineering, which includes the analysis of statistical data. So I can definitively say that you are full of shit. Using single points of data as if they mean something shows me that most likely, you do not have any kind of tertiary education, I strongly suspect that you don’t even have a full secondary education.
I summarize this due to my several years of teaching first year math (the lowest version, intended for kids that did the most basic maths at school) and yet they all seem to know that single points of data doesn’t indicate a significant trend.
For example, I can point out over 45 individual incidents of murder in New Zealand. However, when you take an actual look at the statistics, not even a university level, just a high school level look, you can see that New Zealand has a very low murder rate.
I will now explain some things to you, using some simple maths so that you can understand.
I’m going to use the UN murder rates, as a general rule, the UN data’s is pretty good.
Now if my look at the murder rate, the number of murders per year per 100000 people (including terrorist attacks) the most murderous nation is Honduras with at least 83% of the population being Christian.
Now, as I said, a single point of evidence is worth nothing, so I’m going to take it a little step up, not too much though.
Out of the top ten nations by murder rate, only one has a muslim majority, estimated around 25% muslim, the rest being Christian then various traditional religions.
One other nation in the list has a small muslim minority, around 12% of the population.
The rest of these nations are far and away Christina majorities, generally around 95%-98%.
Now, if we use your interpretation from this data, we must immediately deport all Christians, as the evidence suggests that they are going to kill us all!
Now, lets look at the nations that you are so concerned about. Iraq rates a 2.0 murder rate, afghanistan a 2.4. Now, the data should be taken with a bit of scepticism as definitely in Afghanistan, less so in Iraq, data is hard to collect. Let’s add 20% to this value, well over what we allow for say, bridge design. This means that we have Iraq being 2.4 and Afghanistan being 2.88. This places them as safer places to be than christian Chile, christian USA, Christian Philippines, Christian Georgia well, a lot of Christian nations, go look at the list for more.
So, the only conclusion that can be drawn from the statistical data available using your hypothesis that religion is the key factor is that Christianity is the cause large scale murder amongst the population.
Now, if you feel like posting evidence that you could understand it, perhaps a scan of your degree, with the sensitive information blacked out of course, I would be more than happy to do some proper statistical analysis in regards to murder rate/religion and other alternatives. A Chi-squared test is generally the most common method used for this, but I can run some others if you want.
SPOILER: There exists a ‘strong’ relations to GDP per capita and murder rate. (‘strong’ being strong in the statistical world, a bit hard to convert is over, mostly due to my admittedly poor way of explaining higher level statistics.
So what Trinity is saying with their bias rants attacking Muslims and Islam based on not thinking for themselves by listening to others, is that they think it is ok that Non-Muslims and Non-Islam groups like The IRA, Red Army, ETA, Uni Bomber etc etc should be allowed to kill and injured members of the public? How sick is this?
Unstable Governements that are that way because of the continued disputes between sunnah and shiaat Muslims that has been reoccuring for 1400 years.
South America is not taking there war world wide !
Islamic states are giving democracy a go and good on them but there will also be those who will continue to follow the traditional Islamic teachings that will be opposed to it.
Again the immaturity of resorting to swearing and childish outlashes. YOU learn about the HISTORY of ISLAM ! Seems you have enough time on your hands to troll through pages to gather selective and bias information just to have something to put on your blog. Try something actually worthwhile for a change.
YOU bought me here with your bias son. Pissy little Blog sights such as this usual dont warrent my interest , but seeing as you decided to try and use my name to gain attention then here I am.
“Unstable Governements that are that way because of the continued disputes between sunnah and shiaat Muslims that has been reoccuring for 1400 years.”
Which relates to Ed Husic….how?
“South America is not taking there war world wide !”
*Their* Not *There*
And you naturally have evidence of Muslims coming to Australia to spread a war?
“YOU learn about the HISTORY of ISLAM !”
Great. Will do. Where did you learn about the history of Islam from, Trinity?
“Try something actually worthwhile for a change.”
Great, actually doing. What are you doing that is so worthwhile?
Just for the record, complaining about racism online = Not worthwhile. Actually being bigoted and racist online to a member of parliament = Totally worthwhile (According to Trinity).
“YOU bought me here with your bias son.”
Correction, you chose to be here. What’s the problem? If you approve of what you’ve posted, surely you don’t mind someone republishing it?
” Pissy little Blog sights such as this usual dont warrent my interest ”
*Sites* not *Sights*
*Don’t* not *dont*
*Warrant* not *Warrent*
Listen, you’re either a terrible speller, grammar and general English user, and therefore have no academic experience, or you’ve got the worst english language software in the world which like to invent new words.
You can fuck off any time you wish.
“”YOU bought me here with your bias son. Pissy little Blog sights such as this usual dont warrent my interest , but seeing as you decided to try and use my name to gain attention then here I am.””
If it doesn’t “”warrent”” your interest, why are you constantly replying and posting here?
The antibogan has gotten plenty of attention well before you were posted here. Welcome to the wall of shame.
Yes I can and I will as sooon as JM and others of similar attitudes stop bringing me back.
Typical JM that your resort to grammatical errors and spelling errors when you have nothing of any factual basis to go on. So predicatable.
Mindmadeup in future dont post partial things out of context and I wont feel the need to come here.
Jm if you have a problem with what I say on Mr Husics page then I suggest you say so there instead of trying to backstab your way through life. Get some asylum seekers into your home to teach you some things considering your advocating so strongly for them and their beliefs.
We’ve all met asylum seekers at some stage. Some of us are even descended from them.
Mostly good people. Unlike racists and bigots who are universally dreadful and to be avoided.
We were not interested in featuring the hundreds of supportive comments of Ed Husic’s supporters at his Facebook page. Those people are to be admired, as is Ed himself.
We were interested in showing up the few ignorant bigots and their stupidity. Obviously we have done that very well.
“Yes I can and I will as sooon as JM and others of similar attitudes stop bringing me back.”
Translation: If you keep on disagreeing with me on my belief that muslims are evil and taking over Australia, then I will continue to post here.
And you totally agree with free speech, right?
“Typical JM that your resort to grammatical errors and spelling errors when you have nothing of any factual basis to go on. So predicatable. ”
Typical bigot. I say “You’re lying, your beliefs are not based on fact, you copy word for word text from anti-islamic site to present as impartial evidence, you send hate filled messages to others, and you can’t even spell”
Trinity: “So typical, saying I can’t spell”
Do you ignore everything that objects to your view of things, or only everything online? I mean, if you believe it’s going to be sunny today, do you just ignore the buckets of rain?
“Mindmadeup in future dont post partial things out of context and I wont feel the need to come here. ”
Are yes, the out of context remark. Please, tell me the comment that justified your hatefilled messages to Ed Husic and another poster. Still waiting on that.
Incidentally, you are being allowed here to post as a courtesy. Just as I am. Your message of “Don’t do stuff I don’t like, or I’ll come back and harrass you” just givs the admin a reason to send you back to the crazy bin.
“Jm if you have a problem with what I say on Mr Husics page then I suggest you say so there”
Why? What gain is there for me?
Firstly, you’re unlikely to be on Husic’s page much longer (You are a troll, and you get banned because you harrass people).
Secondly, I do have a problem with you, and what you say, and so I’ve told people here that you’re crazy and I have a problem. What further reason would I have to post on other pages? This may surprise you, Trinity, but I actually have other things to do apart from tell the world about your crazy delusions.
Thirdly, I’ve tried to talk with you before. You ignore any argument which you disagree with, no matter the evidence, make up extreme stories without any evidence to back them up, base all your knowledge of Islam from what you’ve read on anti-muslim websites, and when people challenge you despite this, you make accusations about them, and insult them. Why would I want to talk with you? I enjoy talking with you here, because I know I’m the nice poster here, the one who challenges your view, and shows your attitude to be ridiculous, but safe in knowing that when you go into crazy town again, the admins will send you back to the crazy bin.
” instead of trying to backstab your way through life.”
You don’t know what words mean. Backstab means betraying someone, ie breaking someone’s trust or loyalty. I have never had or pretended to have any loyalty to you. You are a liar, who spreads lies about islam to encourage others to hate. You have crazy delusions, based on fictions, and I seriously think you have a mental problem.
See-no loyalty=no backstab.
” Get some asylum seekers into your home to teach you some things considering your advocating so strongly for them and their beliefs.”
Already have had them, and have been in many asylum seeker houses. And they’ve taught me about the terrible trip they had coming to Australia, and more importantly, the life they’ve made for themselves since they’ve been here.
Was there another lesson I was meant to learn from them? Let me guess, I’m meeting with the wrong asylum seekers-I’m meant to meet the secret asylum seekers only you know.
Trinity should get some more of those who overstay their visa’s into your home to get more money from them and tofind out from their beliefs, of why are they in Australia illegally?
To give a quick example of you ignoring things.
You ask for my credentials in judging mental illness, and accuse me of wanting all asylum seekers to be allowed into the communtiy untested. I name my credentials and clarify my opinion-you go quiet, because this goes again your belief.
You show random examples of Muslim on muslim violence to show how dangerous Islam is, and then It Does Happen presents a quite detailed statistical study to show that according to murder rate, Islamic countries are no more violent than non-muslim countries, and probably even less violent that Christian countries. You go quiet because this challenges your belief.
You declare a page can’t have freedom of speech if it is moderated-I demonstrate that belief means I’m allowed to shout “Fire” in a crowded theatre, as otherwise my belief is moderate-you go silent because your belief is challenged.
So….all these cases where you ignore contrary beliefs because you oppose them, and all we hear instead is: “You ignore and ban any view you disagree with. You will not refute fact. You will ignore evidence”
What exactly has been ignored? What facts have been presented that anyone, apart from you, refuses to refute? Listen, Trinity, you may not be here for much longer, so at least clarify your accusations before you make them.
Since Trinity and those with similar way of thinking is going through life trolling forums with nothing factual to write about Asylum Seekers, they should get some Asylum Seekers into their home to teach them some things considering they advocating so strongly against them and their beliefs?
Hey idiot or should I say weak, no one especially “JM and others of similar attitudes” is forcing you to come back, it is up to go if you come back with bias rants attacking Muslims and Islam and thinking it is ok that Non-Muslims and Non-Islam groups are attacking, killing and injuring members of the public.
Admired because of what ? Mr Husic has barely even been heard of until now.
Asylum seekers are fine if they are actually genuine. Many of them are not and makse it difficult for those that really do require help.
Ignorant bigots are those they make blog pages to flap their gums about things they are ignorant about. Cowards that are to gutless to speak in any other public forum and only allow those who agree totally with their own possition.
By labelling others bigots and racists is hypocrisy. Do we lable you as non patriotic traitors ?
“Admired because of what ? Mr Husic has barely even been heard of until now. ”
Thankfully the admin has already answered this question:
It seems Ed Husic is very popular in his electorate and does a great job. He is also bringing the NBN to a part of Sydney which has long been bedevilled with slow speeds and telecommunications black spots.
Far far more worthy a man than the trolls who intruded on his page.
“Asylum seekers are fine if they are actually genuine. Many of them are not and makse it difficult for those that really do require help. ”
Thankfully we have assesment procedures to test, challenge and investigate the refugee claims of asylum seekers. What are you suggesting we do instead?
Now let’s see how long it takes to be a hypocrite:
“Ignorant bigots are those they make blog pages to flap their gums about things they are ignorant about.”
Two sentences later:
“By labelling others bigots and racists is hypocrisy. ”
Labelling other people bigots is hypocrisy-but the true bigots are people who tpye on the internet-totally different! You calling people bigots (And other offensive terms) online is totally different from other people’s actions, right?
“Cowards that are to gutless to speak in any other public forum”
I’ve tried talking to you on a public forum, Trinity. This is how it has gone:
Trinity: Extremist unproven claim aimed to generate hate towards muslims/asylum seekers
Me: What proof do you have for this claim?
A) Prove me Wrong!
B) I have proof, but only I can see it
C) Anti – islam site I copy word for word-it’s unbiased I swear
D) Here is a website that doesn’t actually prove anything-and that proves I’m right.
Repeat over and over again, with you adding insults, slurs, and accusations against the person you’re talking to.
“and only allow those who agree totally with their own possition. ”
Whereas you absolutely consider everyone else’s opinion, don’t you? Tell me, how much are you considering anyone else’s opinions now?
“Do we lable you as non patriotic traitors ?”
Yes. That insult is used often.
In fact you called me a supporter of terrorists once.
“Cowards that are to gutless to speak in any other public forum and only allow those who agree totally with their own possition” Just like ADL or APP forums and very small protest?
And Trinity thinks it is that those who overstay their Visa are ok to be illegally in Australia, as they hiding some in their place and getting paid for this?
Trinity you haven’t been heard of until now with excuses, lies and complete BS proving you cannot think for yourself.
patriotism = evil
Sometimes. Not always. Patriotism is an emotion which, like all emotions can I think be used for good or evil.
gee, some people here need to get over it.. big deal, so he did not use a bible ! as long as he is a good man is all that matters….. peace
Respect and kudoes for the grace and good sense of Ed Husic in his response to these disgraceful attacks onhim and on Ed Husic’s opposite number Josh Frydenberg and his comments in a radio interview here :
Both these guys are good Aussie blokes – despite being politicians – and neither of them was sworn in on the Bible – and that’s fine by me and I suspect most.others.
trouble is when used for evil, so many innocents suffer.
I am wondering how many who attack Husic, the son of Bosnian migrants, who was the first MP to be sworn Qur’an, goes to church and follow what is the bible, like the two Forrest and Fred Nile?
There seen to be a connection between racists and bad spelling and grammar and thinking you know anything, but end up knowing f**k all as proven by their own rants.