“…I am going to find you… bitch… I know where you live.” Aussie Mick McQueen to a Woman

#auspol #ausmedia #wapolice

Mick McQueen threatens to find and kill a woman who disagreed with him on the Interwebz.

He works for Regulated Freight Lines.

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39 thoughts on ““…I am going to find you… bitch… I know where you live.” Aussie Mick McQueen to a Woman

  1. Wait. So Mick McQueen is going to demonstrate that he’s not a violent man by hunting this woman down and doing violence to her? *confused face*

  2. I don’t think that the woman’s response was approriate either. It is very possible, common even, to have strong views on homosexuals and immigration and have an excellent relationship with your family.

    To infer that Mick is a “wife beating rapist” is higly offensive and totally unreasonable. I think that Mick’s response was unreasonable, but hardly exceptional or unexpected given the disgusting assertions that were made. I cannot think of a more provocative thing to say to man.

    You know what? I actually find the woman’s post more offensive, unreasonable and unenlightened that MIck’s. So who is the culprit and who is the victim?

    MIck might not be very expressive, perhaps not too bright, but this woman comes across as a really nasty piece of work. She made a cowardly attack whilst hiding behind her keyboard. There is no room for her to take the moral high ground here.

    BTW, MIck’s dog is really cute! : )

    • True, the woman’s comment wasn’t exactly nice (Though it’s clear this conversation has been going on for a while and this is just Mick’s latest comment), but are you saying that it’s more offensive and cowardly to make disparaging remarks about a person who is already being abusive, than it is to threaten physical harm on a woman?

      What an interesting view of the world: “Threatening physical harm, particularly to women is fine, as long as you don’t disparage their character. So say you’ll kill someone, but make sure that you haven’t damaged their image while you do it!”

      Threatening people who disagree with you is wrong. Threatening violence against people who have said mean things about you is wrong. No matter how cute their dog is!

    • While the comment made, impugning Mick’s character in such heinous terms, was completely reprehensible, it’s generally hoped that an adult’s response to that would be more measured. It is, after all, the internet; asinine behaviour is part of the deal, but stalking/death threats are – I hope you would agree – beyond the pale.

  3. According to email I received today from the freight company, he worked for the company for a period in 2011 but is not a current employee.
    You should probably amend that in the intro.

  4. Just FYI: DGM no longer exists – they are now EnLog. The DGM-AUS link does redirect to their new website, though.

    **********

  5. This immediate response from RFL, so probably best not to contact them:

    Thank-you for your email.

    Please be advised that Regulated Freight Lines (RFL) employed a Mr Michael McQueen for a short period back in 2011.

    Mr McQueen is not a current employee of RFL.

    Best Regards,

    RFL (Management).

  6. Ummm…. So, it’s really poor form for Mick to say he’ll stalk a female and that he “knows where she lives”. I say it’s also poor form for him to threaten her over the internet (“shove those words down your throat…”). What I cannot read into this anywhere is an explicit threat to kill, as has been alleged.

    What I have read is several imputations:

    1) That he has made threats to commit murder.
    2) That his parents are child abusers.
    3) That Mr McQueen engages in domestic violence against his wife.
    4) That Mr McQueen is engaged in child sexual abuse.
    5) That Mr McQueen is a person of low moral standing and character.
    6) That Mr McQueen should be shunned and deprived of a livelihood….

    You know, I’d be a little bit pissed off too.

    From what I see here, it’s ok to stalk a person whom one percieves as a homophobic, racist mysoginist. He has been ‘outed’ on the internet and someone also seen fit to contact his (past) employer. Guys, THAT IS STALKING!

    Contacting his employer my be fair game for some, but to me that is an absolute travesty. I hold any person who thinks that it is cool to spread rumours to an employer about a person with the intent harming their personal circumstance (and that of the family) in this manner to be a complete lowlife. The person who did that has gone waaaaay too far!

    In the final synthesis, JM, yes, it IS inappropriate to threaten people over the internet. I assume that this woman has not actually had physical harm done to her by Mr McQueen? Certainly there is no evidence presented that he has done so. What this woman has said about him is about as disgusting as you can get. To infere child sexual abuse is about the most harmful and hurtful ways in which words can be employed against another person. In my opinion, this is just as harmful and hurtful as a physical assault.

    What I do see here is that this forum seeks to expose instances of “bogan” behaviour. I also see some pretty bogan perspectives being posted here by ‘anti-bogans’. This concept of “outing” people and publishing their workplace and other identifying characteristics is counterproductive and just down-right nasty in my opinion. I will not associate myself with bullies.

    I disagree with the ‘witch hunt’ menatlity of this website. I can’t stand a hypocrite.

    • You seem to forget.

      McQueen intruded himself into a group. It was obvious he was there to troll, start pointless arguments and create disruption. He particularly targeted one person there who was vigorously arguing with him.

      On any other site he probably would have been banned. Seems to us the admin was somewhat slack.

      He also made implied and overt threats to the person he was targeting.

      The victim did not infer sexual abuse etc in any way that would stand up to legal scrutiny.

      Whether people contact employers or not is entirely up to them. If employers current or future come across people engaging in bullying and criminal behaviour like racism and bigotry online they can use their options. Many have done so.

      We are only interested in the rights of victims. Act like an arsehole on social media, expect to be called out on it.

      Oh by the way what do you think of McQueen’s homophobia? Or is that OK with you?

    • You made a lot of points, and I’ll get to each in order, but this one has leapt out at me:

      “yes, it IS inappropriate to threaten people over the internet. I assume that this woman has not actually had physical harm done to her by Mr McQueen? Certainly there is no evidence presented that he has done so. ”

      So…it’s okay to threaten someone, as long as you don’t enact the threat? I’m sorry, but that’s a disgusting and dangerous belief if you really believe it. According to you, when a person says they are going to come around to my house and beat the hell out of me, this is fine, until the actual point when violence occurs.
      Considering you’re presumably condemning domestic abuse, do you not realise how much of domestic abuse is made up of threats: “If you leave me, I’ll kill you. If you try to run away, I’ll kill you”-according to you, that’s all fine, because no actual murder has taken place yet.

      If you honestly believe this, then I’m ashamed of you.

      “I say it’s also poor form for him to threaten her over the internet (“shove those words down your throat…”). What I cannot read into this anywhere is an explicit threat to kill, as has been alleged.”

      It is a threat of violence. Is it something that is excusable because he is only threatening to abuse a woman online rather than murder her? Is it somehow better to say he will hunt her down, and physically abuse her, but leave her alive afterwards?

      “From what I see here, it’s ok to stalk a person whom one percieves as a homophobic, racist mysoginist. ”

      Firstly-stalking? So it’s okay to tell someone, particularly a woman, that you know where she lives and will physically abuse her, but reporting publically about already public information-guys, that’s wrong!
      There is nothing in this blog that was private. Mick chose to reveal everything, his personal information, his work history, and his disgusting beliefs. You don’t get to redact information when it is already public, you lose all control over it! If I said loudly in the middle of the street: “I HATE VISIGOTHS”- I don’t control who gets to know that comment afterwards, or how it may be spread around. According to you, I should have that right.

      Secondly-perceived as a homophobic racist mysoginist. Please tell me how his above comments about Muslims, asylum seekers and homosexuals are in fact being incorrectly perceived as hatefilled statements.

      “He has been ‘outed’ on the internet and someone also seen fit to contact his (past) employer. Guys, THAT IS STALKING!”

      He outed himself. No one outsed him.
      Interesting you use the word out, like keeping your sexuality secret. Well, if someone wanted to hide their sexuality, and chose to do it by posting publically about their sexuality, repeatedly, with links tracking back to their name, their former place of work and their truck, you’re saying that everyone else would be wrong to mention to a friend “He’s gay”?

      This site is repeating public information. At no point was his privacy breached. If he didn’t want his former employers to know about his racist and homophobic beliefs, then he should think before opening his mouth.

      Now you seem to draw offense that the previous employer was contacted. But why do you think that his behaviour should be protected? An employer wants a worker who works well with others, who will make a good relationship with customers, and represent the company. A person who makes racist and homophobic statements while being visibly a member of the company is sending a message to potential customers that “We will not respect you” and to the employer that “Forget about putting me to work with anyone gay or Muslim-it just won’t work”

      Again, suppose while in his work force, this person made the same comment he made above, but in the middle of the street. Would you also be condemning a person who called the company to complain about his actions? This is the same thing as posting public comments, while showing yourself to be a representative of the company.

      And, what exactly would happen if this was still his company? I mena, how is any poster the big bad guy? An employer can look at this site just as easily as anyone one else, and make up their own mind. If he hadn’t done anything wrong, the company will not sack him- if they did, this would be the company’s fault. If he had done something wrong and then deserves to be sacked, this is not the fault of TAB either-he is responsible for his own actions, no one else. We seem to be living in a world where more and more people think that if they do stupid things or say stupid things, that it’s everyone else’s responsibility to make sure they don’t get into trouble.

      Sorry. It doesn’t work like that. It is up to you to watch what you say, and actually think before doing something stupid, not anyone else.

      “I hold any person who thinks that it is cool to spread rumours to an employer about a person with the intent harming their personal circumstance (and that of the family) in this manner to be a complete lowlife. ”

      How exactly is anything here a rumour? The allegation put on this post isn’t anything other than Mick is racist, homophobic, and is sneding violently threatening messages to women. What is it about the previous statement that instead of being based on reality, is actually fictional rumour mongering? Waht have I lied about in that summary?

      And again, if a person does a stupid thing, it’s somehow everyone else’s fault to keep quiet, in case they need the money?
      I know of a guy who insulted a gay man at work, the man complained to the guy’s boss, and so the guy was promptly sacked. Is that wrong? I mean, who knows, the guy making the hateful statements may have needed the money, he could have had a family to support-the boss didn’t consider this. The boss considered what was good for his company-and that didn’t include having a guy making a bad image of his company and losing customers.

      Y’know, what’s funny? For all the people who come here calling us communists, they seem to support one ideal of communism: “To Each according to his needs” (Forget about the abilities part however)

      This may be a shock to you, but in your job it doesn’t matter how many kids you have. It doesn’t matter how much you need the money. Your performance evaluation is not based on how big your mortgage is, and your raise is not based on your car payments. You are judged on your job performance and worth to the company.

      If you do a bad job, it doesn’t matter how much you need the job, the employer is full in his rights to provide written warnings and/or dismiss you. If you make a bad image for the company, the employer is full in his rights to providing warnings and/or dismiss you.

      Are you honestly telling me you think that if someone really needs a job, the boss should ignore all bad behaviour, regardless of how damaging it is to the image of his company, demonstrates potential difficulty for the workforce, or problem with some customers? That if you really need a job, all bad behaviiour should be forgiven? You’re living in a fantasy world!

      “This concept of “outing” people and publishing their workplace and other identifying characteristics is counterproductive and just down-right nasty in my opinion”

      Nasty-sure. No one is pretending to be nice to racists, sexists and homophobes. What made you think anyone was going to? Were you wanting to support racists then?
      Outing-as I said before eveyrone here has outed themselves. They made the comments. They did it knowingly, they did it willingly, they did it publically. But now, according to you, we’re meant to pretend it never happened?

      But counter-productive? Explain! This site works in that it reminds people that if you make hateful statements publically, you can expect public objection. It’s the same technique we use to teach children social manners-the kids who eats his boogers at school gets shunned, so learns not to eat his boogers.

      It’s not perfect, I agree. But until anyone comes up with a better way of responding to bigotry, this better keep going. Because when you do nothing in response to racism, you are tolerating it. And when you tolerate racism, you encourage it.

      “I will not associate myself with bullies.”

      So, let’s summarise the morals:
      1) Threatening abuse against a woman, while wrong (Unless the threat isn’t enacted-in which case it’s all fine), is much better than reporting already public information publically to another person. Telling someone something which is already public knowledge is evil and wrong! People who do this should instead invest in more wholesome activities, such as threatening violence onto women, but of course never enacting the violence.

      And of course:
      2) If I do something stupid, it’s everyone else’s fault if I get into trouble for it. Never my own.

      Yeah, I think no one’s going to miss your endorsement.

      “I can’t stand a hypocrite.”

      The other golden word-hypocrisy. Because, apparently, disliking or hating entire groups of people because of their gender, race, or sexuality, things that are permanent and largely unchanging is just as bad as disliking or hating particular individuals who are bigoted.

      To provide real historical exmples of this apparent hypocrisy:
      Hitler hated Jews, dark skinned people, and Homosexuals, and wasn’t too keen on women either. But Churchill and Roosevelt hated Hitler for his hatred of others, and so are just as bad.

      You seem to think this site should be objecting to having negative thoughts in general, that we should be cuddling racists, or something. No, this site is against hate of entire groups, against the judging of people by the colour of their skin, their gender, or their sexuality, and for the judging of people based on their beliefs, words and actions. And if you really think that hatred of an entire group of people based on their difference, their skin colour, sexuality gender, is just as bad as hating someone because of the terrible things they have said and done, then you are a terrible person.

    • “I hold any person who thinks that it is cool to spread rumours to an employer about a person with the intent harming their personal circumstance (and that of the family) in this manner to be a complete lowlife.”

      Just a semantic observation: it’s not a rumour if it’s true. He did actually say that.

      However, as I said earlier, I completely agree that the woman who posted that despicable comment is not blameless. What I DON’T agree with is responding to an Internet troll by threatening them. It’s the internet; some people are assholes.

    • @ Ryan, as well as what mindmadeup andJM have written -which I agree withand heartily second, do you realise that (I think) the Anti-bogan site if contacted by Mr McQueen directly might well be willing to remove this and references to him if Mr McQueen were to ask very nicely, apologise for his comments and agree to behave better in the future? Pretty sure that’s how this site works, right?

      @ JM : “You seem to think this site should be objecting to having negative thoughts in general, that we should be cuddling racists, or something.”

      Well, racists are people too; individuals all of them and maybe some of them could really benefit from a good cuddle and human intimacy – its possible I guess that alack of such cuddles and positive human contact could sometimes explain though NEVER excuse how they are – but they shouldn’t be rewarded for or expect to get away with being racist or sexist or homophobic, etc …

      There’s probably a psychology paper of fifty in the whole area of racists and their reactions to / needs for / previous lacks of cuddles but that’s a whole other topic in itself!

  7. Well, what a rave!

    There are several aspects to the above that I find to be laughingly patronising. As a current Harrassment and Discrimination Contact Officer (and having been one at my previous company) my opinions regarding the rights of people regardless of sexual orientation, ethnic group, political ideology, union activity, etc etc.Having held past Supervisory and Mangaement positions, I am also very aware of the reciprocal responsibilities between staff and their employer.

    JM, where you said:

    “So…it’s okay to threaten someone, as long as you don’t enact the threat? I’m sorry, but that’s a disgusting and dangerous belief if you really believe it. According to you, when a person says they are going to come around to my house and beat the hell out of me, this is fine, until the actual point when violence occurs.”

    You have made a conclusion that is not intended by my words. Refer to the meaning of the actual words that I wrote: you CANNOT reasonably conclude from my words that I think that making threats on the internet is ok. My point is that it is ONE thing to make a threat (especially when someone has REALLY pushed his buttons, as this woman did) and another to carry them out.

    In the past, I worked alongside a man who was a great workmate, had superb technical skills, was personable, an excellent employee. As I got to know of him a little better, I found that he was a total homophobe and racist. He never let this on on to the Gays or Ethnics that worked along side him. They thought that he was a great bloke. Mr McQueens employer may well feel the same about him. They may even share his views. Mr McQueen is no saint, that’s for sure. I don’t know how you tracked down his Facebook page. Did he sign in to whatever forum he made was posting on (not to kill, that is an exaggeration on your part. mindmup) with FB? Mick may well be an excellent employee. How his company percieve his behaviour is up to them.

    All in all, I expected a higher standard from you. Clearly you are a vigilante group who seek out those whose views you disagree with and then attempt to cause them harm. You are no better than the people whom you vilify and no matter how you dress it up, you share a similar behavioural set to them. You then justify this by saying that they desrve it. If you, JM, want to conclude that I am “a terrible person” you have that right. You may want to consider how much value I will now place on your opinion of me: none at all.

    I won’t wish you luck with your future endevours with this forum; I really can’t see their worth.

    PS Sometime ago, a woman telephoned me to tell me about a current staffer. She said that she was a bitch and was sack from her previous job, was incompetent etc etc. My response to her was to thank her for her ‘phone call but that I did not have time to discuss further. When I hung up I thought “What a fuckwit…!!”

    • We get a lot of people sending us evidence. Some of our informants get the nonsense in their notifications and news feed. The Twitter morons are pretty obvious.

      We have so much stuff we could run a dozen sites like this.

      Can you please get over the notion that overt prejudice is just a “view”? It is not according to the laws of this country. Bear that in mind. Your mate McQueen did not. An aggrieved person could well complain to AHRC.

      If you don’t like this site you don’t have to post here.

      Oh by the way Mr Proxy Server user do you have proof you actually are a Harrassment and Discrimination Contact Officer?

      We are rightly concerned when people come here under dodgy IDs (as distinct from people who use pseudonyms but whose IPs are legit) We know of at least one neo-Nazi with a criminal record who does so.

      As you can well understand we don’t want people like that posting here under false flags.

    • There are a few things about your response Ryan that had me waving the red flag. And althought they are subtle on the surface, they say volumes about you as a person. I am leaning toward JM’s assertion of your character here, not that you care (except that you really do care, hence your retort). And I find it very unsettling that someone who declares he has an understanding of “reciprocal responsibilities between staff and their employer” can be lacking in empathy and compassion, especially as you are the first port of call for people experiencing harrassment or discrimination.

      1) Your language and references to other people say a lot about how you perceive them Ryan. An example of this is when you refer “to the Gays or Ethnics”. These are YOUR words and how YOU chose to refer to them as and it kinda indicates your own prejudices for these people. Notice that, apart from the goose being featured in the story, no one else refers to others like that except to abuse them. Just saying…

      2) You don’t have to be Gay or dark skinned to be offended by racism and homophobia Ryan. Just because your ‘workmate’ who you know to be racist and homophobic (funny that, my mates and I are friends because we share similar interests) didn’t say it within earshot of others who are so inclined, doesn’t make it acceptable even if he were to voice his opinions to those who are not so inclined. The fact that he revealed his prejudices to you is in itself reprimandable because it was done in the workplace. Unless the views were reciprocated and endorsed by yourself in the conversation?

      3) “How his company percieve his behaviour is up to them.” Except it’s not that simple is it Ryan. It’s largely left up to the Management team, the Harrassment and Discrimination officers or people in position of authority that are paid the extra buck and are trusted to protect the name of the company to oversee the care and welfare of employees and the public reputation of their businesses…people like you. And, as you have rather generously demonstrated, that this is where the ball is dropped by too many, too many times. When there are ligitimate complaints being made only to be told, always politely and always ‘in the interests of the company’ that they’re “fuckwits”. I am not saying your scenario didn’t wrarrant any further investigations, rather, there was no protocol followed hence, you acted on behalf of the company and chose not to investigate further. Far too subjective.

      Either way, I’m with JM.

    • Ryan, what you say pretty much contradicts everything you said previously, but we’ll get to that later.

      “You have made a conclusion that is not intended by my words. ”

      Apologies, so when you said you were more offended by a woman insulting and slandering a man than you were by this man threatening violence by her, what did you mean?
      And when you wish to clarify whether or not the threats lead t oactual harm, what purpose were you serving if not to minimise the importance and seriousness of the threat?

      Or in other words, if we all agree threatening violence onloine is wrong, why ask if violence has been caused? How would your personal response to this poster change?

      “My point is that it is ONE thing to make a threat (especially when someone has REALLY pushed his buttons, as this woman did) and another to carry them out.”

      Clarify please. Should we ignore threats of violence, or generally accept them if we think the person won’t carry them out? How do you know when someone will carry out a threat of violence?

      “I found that he was a total homophobe and racist. He never let this on on to the Gays or Ethnics that worked along side him.”

      So he keep his beliefs private because he knew they would not be tolerated and accepted in his professional life or in public? Good-that’s exactly what we want. Mick isn’t doing this. Mick is tkaing his belief publically and attacking and insulting groups publically (He posted on public pages-this by definition means it is not private).

      While ideally, I’d love if racism and homophobia did not exist, that’s unlikely to happen anytime soon. So in the meantime, if all racists and homophobes kept their beliefs to themselves, and not try to enact those hateful beliefs to hurt others, I’ll be pretty happy.

      ” Mick may well be an excellent employee. How his company percieve his behaviour is up to them.”

      So, we agree. The company will decide whether his behaviour is suitable for their company.

      So….what’s your grievance with this website then? Previously you stated this site was trying to get people sacked from their job, but now you’re saying it’s the company that will decide, with this website not having the final say. In which case, TAB will not be the ultimate source of blame-it is either the company’s choice to fire him, or the person’s fault for doing something stupid.

      I think you’re confused.

      “All in all, I expected a higher standard from you. ”

      What exactly were you expecting from a prominent anti racism group? Did you think we were organising cuddle parties with racists?
      Seriously, some of the posters we get here are weird: ‘Well, I know it’s called the antibogan, I know it’s anti racist, and is covered with words like anti-discrimination, but I didn’t expect that they’d actually object to racists-that’s dissapointing!’

      ” Clearly you are a vigilante group who seek out those whose views you disagree with and then attempt to cause them harm.”

      But you just said that we don’t cause harm. If we complain to the bosses it’s up to the boss to decide what to do with the employee. That’s what you said. So what harm are we causing?

      Incidentally-racism, sexism and homophobia aren’t views. They’re hatreds. Are you going to rush the many many people featurd on this site who call for genocide and murder-after all, they are just views to you too?

      “You are no better than the people whom you vilify and no matter how you dress it up, you share a similar behavioural set to them. ”

      So….apparently hating other people because of their skin colour, race, religion or sexuality is the same as hating people because of their beliefs, values, words and actions?

      I’m sorry, if we’re not allowed to hate people who think, say and do terirble things, what are we meant to do? Do you accept everyone and everything doing whatever they want and never criticise them?

      Oh wait, I forgot-you don’t. You criticise people who object to people being racist or homophobic!

      “If you, JM, want to conclude that I am “a terrible person” you have that right. You may want to consider how much value I will now place on your opinion of me: none at all.”

      My words mean nothing, yet you post in long amounts, taking a long time to do so. Interesting, don’t you think?

      “I won’t wish you luck with your future endevours with this forum; I really can’t see their worth.”

      So…..you are angry this site is trying to hurt people who are racist, and sexist, but also believe the site won’t actually hurt anyone who is racist or sexist? So what’s the problem?

      “My response to her was to thank her for her ‘phone call but that I did not have time to discuss further. ”

      Again, you’re contradicting yourself. You started stating this is a gorup trying to hurt people, filled your first post in it, but now you’re saying repeatedly in this second post that no one will be harmed because employers won’t dismiss people, so there will be no harm done.

      So what are you complaining about? As you said, if nothing will come from this site, then no one will be harmed by featuring here, so why are you getting so annoyed, especially as you were in your first post?

      And stuff you missed:
      1) Please tell me how his above comments about Muslims, asylum seekers and homosexuals are in fact being incorrectly perceived as hatefilled statements.

      2) How exactly is anything here a rumour? The allegation put on this post isn’t anything other than Mick is racist, homophobic, and is sneding violently threatening messages to women. What is it about the previous statement that instead of being based on reality, is actually fictional rumour mongering? Waht have I lied about in that summary?

      3) Are you honestly telling me you think that if someone really needs a job, the boss should ignore all bad behaviour, regardless of how damaging it is to the image of his company, demonstrates potential difficulty for the workforce, or problem with some customers? That if you really need a job, all bad behaviiour should be forgiven?

      4) No one is pretending to be nice to racists, sexists and homophobes. What made you think anyone was going to? Were you wanting to support racists then?

      5) ounter-productive? Explain!

      • Agree JM.

        Putting it simply so even the thickies get it – just as we don’t really feel comfortable with people urinating, defecating, masturbating, fornicating, expectorating or nose-picking in public we don’t like to read or see racism, bigotry or homophobia in public.

        Furthermore we have nothing against the first five activities since they are normal human actions, just better done in private. It is generally preferable no matter how free-thinking one is that they take place behind closed doors.

        The last three are absolutely unacceptable but if undisciplined idiots absolutely cannot restrain themselves then do them in private.

        And since we don’t want to know about them and we don’t want to provide an audience , don’t spew them on social media.

  8. Mindmadeup and JM,
    Your behaviour is so foolish that you have successfully alienated a person (me) who actually supported your aims and goals at one time. What I do not support is your method of harrassment of racists/bigots that goes way beyond reasonable behaviour. I am not going to waste my time in further explaination because I know that you will not even attempt to comprehend.

    Defeating bigotry will only work with education, reason and respect. This even means extending human respect to those who are dull and ignorant. Even to those who hate you. What see is that you perpetuate hatred. It may give you a warm inner glow and a feeling of accomplishment to see that you have made life dificult for these bigots, but what you have done is to make them hate you even more, further entrench their predjudice and to make people like myself respect you less.

    Yes, I can prove that I am a H&D contact officer. I could easily attatch letters of appointment from my current and past employer in this regard, but that would further identify me to you and you do not hold my trust. I have seen that you unreasonably accused Mr McQueen of threatening to kill when it is evident from the screen shots that you provided that he did not do so. From your own postings, you have shown that you have invented a set of attitudes that you imagine that I hold. What’s this stuff about “Mr Proxy Server” btw? Are you trying to invent some ‘image’ on your postings?

    You have shown your behaviours to be unethical and yet I sense that you percieve that you think that you are on some moral duty, one that I would support. I mean this nicely, but you are going about this issue in the wrong way. I cannot support bullying and harrassment and that is exactly what you are doing. It’s fair to make commentary on some of these idiots and what they say, but you take it to a whole new personal level. You go out of your way to harm people.

    I have been a subscriber to your site for some time now and I must say that I have been increasingly vexed in recent times regarding some of your posts. Simply, I can no longer see that you are actually doing anything positive. Eventually, someone whom you ‘out’ to their employer will ask that you be identified and that emails etc be turned over to them. It is only ethical that accusers are identified to the accused; it is fair that they have the right of redress and reply. Some of these bogans are crazy. Good luck with that!

    I think that this is now where we part ways.

    • My Granddad didn’t extended respect and kindness to idiots, bigots and bad people, and he toppled a tyrant, raised 3 kids, one with significant development issues, built a successful company and generally made things better. He also called a spade a spade and I think I’ll try follow his example.

    • “Your behaviour is so foolish that you have successfully alienated a person (me) who actually supported your aims and goals at one time. ”

      Funnily enough, I doubt the guy who thinks that homophobia and racism are a “view” was ever supportive of the goals of this site.

      “What I do not support is your method of harrassment of racists/bigots that goes way beyond reasonable behaviour”

      What harrasment? The only thing anyone is doing here is repeating already public information and sometimes calling up employers-the latter of which you stated is not going to do any harm?

      “Defeating bigotry will only work with education, reason and respect. ”

      Really? Tell me exactly how we can stop bigotry. Let’s use Mick as an example. You see him make a comment online about how gays are wrong, Muslims are evil, how would you educate him in a way that he wouldn’t promptly ignore becuase you’re a person in the internet?

      And, when you have a child who urinates in public, do you try and educate them with reason or respect-or do you say “Stop doing that-it’s embarrassing to yourself and everyone who knows you”?

      I have tried to reason with racists, bigots, and those who follow them. I’ve tried to explain my view, and challenge their’s, not with insults, never with insults, but with questions, trying to understand thier views.

      Surprisingly I didn’t get respect in response. I got “When we are in power, we will deal with traitors like you” I got insults about my family and friends, and threats of violence. This was not based on my making any personal attacks-it was due to me asking questions about thier view of minorities.

      So what should I be doing more? When someone respond to me stating Muslims aren’t triyng to take over the world by stating “I’m going to find you and rearrange your teeth” should I give my address? How am I meant to respond?

      The fact, Ryan, is while your idea has its place, particularly with the young, it only works when people want to accept alternative views. People do not change anything unless they want to change. And when a person is racist, has always been racist, and has lost all their friends who aren’t already racist, they are not going to accept reason, they are not going to respond to respect, and they see any attempt at education to be a leftie conspiracy to brainwash them (Sometimes involving fluride).

      “It may give you a warm inner glow and a feeling of accomplishment to see that you have made life dificult for these bigots, ”

      But, again, you said in your second post that we’re not making life difficult for these racists-in fact there would be no effect due to employers ignoring any complaints from this site.

      You seem confused. You say this site is having no effect, but then complain about people “harrassing” racists by phoning their employers, suggesting a negative effect. But then you say that the employers would ignore any such complaint, so the site has no effect. It doesn’t make sense.

      “but what you have done is to make them hate you even more, further entrench their predjudice and to make people like myself respect you less.”

      Again, this site is not trying to have racists stop being racists, nor is it trying to be the racist’s friend. What it is trying to do is show that negative behaviour and thoughtd have consequences. If they want to keep on thinking racist thoughts, go ahead, if they even want to tell their friends in private these thoughts, go ahead. But if they want to voice these views in public where they can hurt them, this is what we object to.

      And if this site has any effect, which you occasionally think it does, it results in the last result. Racism goes back to the repressed dark secret people are ashamed to voice, without the internet as an outlet. Again, if you have actually a clear plan for combating racism that is different, I’d love to hear it. But considering your idea is “Treat them with respect, and reason with them, even when they are stating they are going to track you down to your house and kill you” I doubt you actually have anything apart from good feelings.

      “From your own postings, you have shown that you have invented a set of attitudes that you imagine that I hold.”

      Yep, but I have offerred you a chance to explain these views I’ve misinterpreted. You have refused to do so. But let’s try again:

      when you said you were more offended by a woman insulting and slandering a man than you were by this man threatening violence by her, what did you mean?
      And when you wish to clarify whether or not the threats lead t oactual harm, what purpose were you serving if not to minimise the importance and seriousness of the threat?

      Or in other words, if we all agree threatening violence onloine is wrong, why ask if violence has been caused? How would your personal response to this poster change?

      “It’s fair to make commentary on some of these idiots and what they say, but you take it to a whole new personal level.”

      Okay, let’s say the admin gave you the site. How would you change it to make it better? I want to hear your ideas.

      ” You go out of your way to harm people. ”

      Make up your freakin’ mind Ryan. Here’s a summary of your posts:
      Post 1- You are harming people for having different beliefs from you.
      Post 2- Your site achieves nothing, and employers would ignore you.
      Post 3- You are harming people again.

      Which is it? Is this site harming racists, or is it ineffectual? Do you actually believe any of this, or are you throwing any possible demotivating statement at the site, hoping one of them sticks, even if they all contradict each other?

      What exactly is this site doing that is harming people? Please, be specific.

      “I have been a subscriber to your site for some time now and I must say that I have been increasingly vexed in recent times regarding some of your posts. ”

      Bollocks. Let me tell you why. If you have actually been a subscriber to this site, then what has happened recently to make you change your view? Is it:
      -Reporting public information and public comments from racists (This has been going on for as long as this site has existed)?
      -Reporting to employers regarding the racist statements of their employees, even though you say this will not achieve anything because employees would ignore it (This has also been going on for a long long time-with some people losing work over the stupid things they’ve said and done).

      So, as a subscriber, you’re objecting to what has been going on ever since you joined the site? That’s how I know you’re talking bollocks.

      There’s one other reason I know you’re talking bollocks:

      “Eventually, someone whom you ‘out’ to their employer will ask that you be identified and that emails etc be turned over to them. It is only ethical that accusers are identified to the accused; it is fair that they have the right of redress and reply. Some of these bogans are crazy. Good luck with that!”

      This is typical closet racist. I’m guessing you actually are someone on this site, using a different name, but rather than saying “What the hell you doing with my pciture-1488!” you insteas think you’re going to be the smart one who brings the whole site down. So you set up a game plan
      Tell them the site is hurting people
      Tell them the site is not actually achieving anything (Forget that it ignores the first point)
      Tell them the site is hurting people again (Forget how it ignores the second point), then the kicker,

      Tell them that if they don’t change their ways, there’s a big terrible racist who’s going to hurt them. Not you-that’s a threat, but someone who must exist will kill us all, probably.

      Y’know, a few times I’ve been on anti-racist groups. Nothing as active as this, more the type of facebook group that just has one line, and people talkingabout ways of combatting racism, and promoting diversity-that sort of thing.
      But whenever we had a Nazi or racist turn up and issue threats, and attacks towards posters, right after he was inevtiably banned, suddenly someone else would turn up, saying he agrees with everything the site is about, but you’ve got to be scary of the racists, because they rule the whole country, and if you anger them they’ll come and kill you.

      What you are doing is word for word the same thing I’ve seen many many times before. You are fooling no one.

      But if you want to keep the charade around, please tell me how you’re going to educate the “crazy” bogan who’s apparently going to kill people that his views on racism are wrong. Good luck wih that.

      “Simply, I can no longer see that you are actually doing anything positive. ”

      Again, as a long term subscriber, what’s changed about this site? Please, be specific.

      “Eventually, someone whom you ‘out’ to their employer will ask that you be identified and that emails etc be turned over to them. ”

      No, that would require a legal process. For a legal process youwould need some sort of crime, or lawyer who is willing to argue a case in court. Please tell me, specifically, the crimes being committed by the site, or the grounds for a court case that could be held against this site (And remember, according to you this site has no effect-no claiming damages will be difficult).

      The only thing I could think of is that if someone lost their job they might be able to sue the site for sending disaparaging information, but considering the information is real, and it was not this site who fired him, it was his employer, you’d be hard pressed to find a lawyer to take it, or a court to accept it.

      Again, this site has been around for years. There’s been many people stating they had lawyers who were going to sue the site, there were going to be a class action law suit. Yet the site remains. The only time it was down, if I recall, was when death threats were made to the admin of this site, and his family. Something, which we already determined, you would probably be okay with, as long as it didn’t result in murder at the end.

  9. Ryan you are full of shit
    you say “Defeating bigotry will only work with education, reason and respect.” I say telling an ignorant bigot that they are a worthless sack of shit means that they are under no illusions what other people think of their attitudes, in fact it should be seen as a public service and applauded.
    The rest of your self righteous bollocks is just you having a fit of the vapours about someone being held to account. Tough shit for you.

  10. Oh Spike;

    “I say telling an ignorant bigot that they are a worthless sack of shit means that they are under no illusions what other people think of their attitudes, in fact it should be seen as a public service and applauded.”

    Yep, that’ll really convince them that they are wrong. Yep, I’m self righteous; get over it.

    Elysse-so somhow from my use of 2 words you are somehow able to develop a complete profile of my personality and that I am a racist? Are you for real? From what you have posted I can conclude that you are 2 things ; dumb and arrogant. These personality facets are never a good combination.

    JM, I am very clearminded as to where I stand on morality issues. I think that it is worthwhile to have a site that laughs at raicst ands sexist comments of some bogan.However, I think that it is immoral to write to their employer to highlight this with the aim of causing hardship to them and their (perhaps) innocent family. You think this is ok, I do not.

    You think that someone NEEDS an injunction of sorts to access the communication that you have with employers. Are you really THAT naive? All it takes is someone to ask for the information as to who you are? If you have ‘outed’ them anonymously, management will just ignore you. If you provide you contact details, management may listen. If an agrieved employee asks for your details, it is likely that these will be passed on. You will be identified. Court action is not required.What the FUCK makes you think that it is? Whatcha gunna do if, say, Mick McQueen and the GM of RFL are mates. Or related. I’d say you may have a really big problem. Umm…have you ever been in the workforce?

    JM, Your logic is that because I disagree with your method in this regard, that this makes me a “closest racist”. Huh? Are you an idiot? That does not indicate rational thought on your part, but I had realised that quite early on that rationality was beyond you. The considerable time which you have devoted to convince me that you are right has failed. You have wasted you time. Btw, brevity is a virtue, JM. : )

    I wont be wasting my time with you you anymore. I no longer associated with you because of marol reasons.
    Goodnight Irene!

    • Y’know what I love? I love when a guy makes a big showy exit, usually with a vague threat….then comes back, because we’re all not stunned with his exit.

      “Yep, that’ll really convince them that they are wrong.”

      That’s not the point. If someone is charged for speeding, they don’t think they’re wrong. When I was charged for jaywalking I didn’t think I was wrong. But what I, and the speeding driver, and the racist learnt is that by doing these actions, we face negative consequences. So if we must do it, we do it in a way that people are not likely to notice or care about.

      “I think that it is worthwhile to have a site that laughs at raicst ands sexist comments of some bogan.”

      So you’re happy to humiliate racists, therefore leading to possible workplace problems (Many employers do google searches on potential staff before they even get to the interview stage), but stating public information about their employer-that’s too far!

      “However, I think that it is immoral to write to their employer to highlight this with the aim of causing hardship to them and their (perhaps) innocent family.”

      Again, you’re contradicting yourself. Previously you said it won’t hurt anyone to be posted here and we’re wasting our time, because employers wouldn’t care about these comments.
      I repeat, which is it? Is this site damaging the employability of out and proud racists, as you’ve stated here, or is it wasting the time of everyone because it will not effect any employer’s decision, which you’ve also said. You can’t believe both-they contradict each other.

      ” If you provide you contact details, management may listen. If an agrieved employee asks for your details, it is likely that these will be passed on. ”

      What planet are you living on?
      “This person has been posting violent threats online about me”
      “Cool, I’ll just pass it on to them, then. Could I have your address please-because the accused really needs to have that?”

      For a guy who works in HR, I’d hate to hear about how you’d manage an accusation of harassment. What someone states she was felt up be a colleague, and is worried about his actions towards her, you would immediately tell the accused what she said, her address, and what time she could be confronted?

      I don’t actually call up the employers-having the names here is enough. And most people don’t call them-an email is enough. Posters normally get a response without having to have their name, address, phone number, email, favourite ice cream flavour, car rego number, etc.

      And the other problem with your theory-no one is going here and saying “I heard this guy is going around threatening people, trust me anonymously”
      No, they say “This guy is going around threatening people-here’s the proof!”

      Funnily enough, when you’ve got proof in black and white, that becomes the issue, not the person who directed an employer to it. Or in your HR department as you treating all evidence as irrelevant until you challenge the person who directed you to the evidence?

      “Whatcha gunna do if, say, Mick McQueen and the GM of RFL are mates. Or related. I’d say you may have a really big problem. Umm…have you ever been in the workforce?”

      Yes, I’ve been in the workforce for quite a while. But I seriously doubt you were ever in HR. At least, not for long.

      “Your logic is that because I disagree with your method in this regard, that this makes me a “closest racist””

      No, my logic is
      -You are repeating a pattern of behaviour I have seen many racists use to try and intimidate and scare any anti-racists.
      -You are presenting contradictory arguments to dismiss anything this site is doing from all angles, even though they don’t make sense (This site is having no effect or damage, but it may damage peoples’ careers), demonstrating to me you don’t disagree with the site on any moral grounds, you just want it not to exist at all.
      -You are clearly lying about many things (I hate what this site has become, publishing racists’ employment details, despite being a long term subscriber, which has happened since this site started)

      Therefore, I doubt many of the things you’ve said about yourself is true. Knowing that you’re not telling the truth makes me wonder why you’re lying. The only reason I can see is you’re pretending to be someone (ie an anti racist) thinking that would be more convincing for us than to come to this as an out and proud racist. Whether you disagree with me or not is irrelevant-what’s important is that you’re lying, and what you’re saying doesn’t make sense-that’s why I think you’re a closet racist.

      “The considerable time which you have devoted to convince me that you are right has failed. You have wasted you time.”

      Well, firstly, I’m a fast typer, so it doesn’t take much time. Secondly, you are wrong to think I was trying to convince you of anything. Just like any racist who comes to this site, my purpose is not to try and change your view, it is to show that your view is incorrect-not the same thing. Trying to convince you of anything is for your benefit, trying to show you to be incorrect is for everyone else’s.

      Incidentally-I was reasoning with you-isn’t that what you’re recommending we do with someone who disagrees with us? And it didn’t go too well, did it?
      Come to think of that, that’s another contradictory comment. You want us to reason, and discuss racism with those making the objectionable statements-but you also think they’re crazy people who are about to kill us all. How does that go together?

      ” Btw, brevity is a virtue, JM. : )”

      Not as much as honesty is. And I’ve got my fans, I don’t need your editing.

    • And incidentally, because while you’ve said you’ll never come back, you’ve also stated that two times previously, here is:

      Stuff you ignored:

      1. What harrasment? The only thing anyone is doing here is repeating already public information and sometimes calling up employers-the latter of which you stated is not going to do any harm?

      2. Really? Tell me exactly how we can stop bigotry. Let’s use Mick as an example. You see him make a comment online about how gays are wrong, Muslims are evil, how would you educate him in a way that he wouldn’t promptly ignore becuase you’re a person in the internet?

      3. When someone respond to me stating Muslims aren’t triyng to take over the world by stating “I’m going to find you and rearrange your teeth” should I give my address? How am I meant to respond?

      4. when you said you were more offended by a woman insulting and slandering a man than you were by this man threatening violence by her, what did you mean?
      And when you wish to clarify whether or not the threats lead t oactual harm, what purpose were you serving if not to minimise the importance and seriousness of the threat?
      Or in other words, if we all agree threatening violence onloine is wrong, why ask if violence has been caused? How would your personal response to this poster change?

      5. Okay, let’s say the admin gave you the site. How would you change it to make it better? I want to hear your ideas.

      6. Again, as a long term subscriber, what’s changed about this site? Please, be specific.

      7. Please tell me how his above comments about Muslims, asylum seekers and homosexuals are in fact being incorrectly perceived as hatefilled statements.

      8. How exactly is anything here a rumour? The allegation put on this post isn’t anything other than Mick is racist, homophobic, and is sneding violently threatening messages to women. What is it about the previous statement that instead of being based on reality, is actually fictional rumour mongering? Waht have I lied about in that summary?

      9. Are you honestly telling me you think that if someone really needs a job, the boss should ignore all bad behaviour, regardless of how damaging it is to the image of his company, demonstrates potential difficulty for the workforce, or problem with some customers? That if you really need a job, all bad behaviiour should be forgiven?

      10. No one is pretending to be nice to racists, sexists and homophobes. What made you think anyone was going to? Were you wanting to support racists then?

      11. Counter-productive? Explain!

  11. Ryan,
    You say “I think that it is immoral to write to their employer…”
    Your argument to support this consists of the possibility of retaliation (perhaps violent) and the possibility of ” causing hardship to them and their (perhaps) innocent family”.
    The first, retaliation, may be a good reason not to do the act (contact the employer) but it is not an argument about the morality of the act.
    The second is a utilitarian argument. You have to weigh the harm caused by the publicly posted comments against the possible harm to the poster and his family. That is why you find yourself struggling with whether the threat is sufficient cause to act or actual violence is required.

    In my opinion, utilitarianism is an obtuse and unsophisticated philosophy. You can not derive rights from utilitarianism. It is of no use at all with human rights as we generally regard them today (or at the time the US constitution was written which is why, in my opinion, they had to inject a Creator at the beginning as the source of rights. The Creator was not required thereafter). For example, is it a moral act to throw christians to the lions in the colosseum? If the suffering of a few christians outweighs the pleasure of the crowd then no but with a large enough colosseum it becomes a moral act.

    When I saw the above images and comments publicly posted by Mr McQueen it seemed to me likely that he drove a large truck for a living and that he might sometimes by given to anger and violence. This combination could cause serious harm to other road users. I know nothing of Mr McQueen other than what he has publicly posted but his employer is in a position to make an assessment. If his employer is aware of what has been publicly posted then they may also have an obligation to satisfy themselves that he is a safe driver to send out on the roads.
    So I emailed his employer, as per the details publicly posted by Mr McQueen.

    Is my action moral?
    Let’s use John Rawls veil of ignorance. You don’t know if you will be living with the morality you create as a truck driver, car driver, cyclist or pedestrian.
    If you enter this world as a truck driver you don’t want someone to contact the employer under any circumstances. But, you might be the cyclist so contacting the employer is desirable for the slightest suspicion. Eventually you reach a position where contacting the employer is justified when you have reasonable grounds.

    I suggest that Mr McQueen’s public posts are reasonable grounds for concern and that contacting the employer is a moral act. If we want to live in a just society it may also be a duty.

  12. I said US constitution but the need for a Creator as the source of rights was dispensed with in the Declaration of Independence.

  13. I don’t doubt Ryan is an harassment officer. It only goes to prove that in every profession, every organization, every company, every school, every police district, every political party there are people completely unsuitable for the position they hold.
    And Elysse, you are no moron.

    • So in what way exactly has he proven to be unsuitable, other than obviously disagreeing with stalking people over the internet? Maybe he’s also guilty of arguing with people who don’t enjoy listening, but do enjoy making strawmen to fight with.

      • After the troll pretends to be supportive of anti-racism, while trashing all methods with contradictory arguments, he then makes threats that other racists are going to hurt someone, even though that makes no sense in what he previously said. The final step is, after being reminded that he made multiple “final” exits, he returns under a different name to pretend he has a friend who supports him.

        Ryan, if you have time to set up a new identity, you have time to answer some questions.

        And to answer your question, because I’m nice like that, you’re unsuitable as a HR person because:
        A) You think it’s standard practice to report any accuser of misbehavior to the accused, even if it involves threats of violence, including any personal contact details, such as address and phone number. You think this even though you accept that some of those accused may be a bit crazy and may inflict violence upon the accuser.
        B) You seem incapable of seeing racist and sexist threats as being such, instead of just a statement which may be perceived as racist.
        C) You see racism, sexism, etc as a view or opinion, rather than an offence.
        D) You seem to believe that no matter what bad behavior the employee exhibits, it will be tolerated if he really needs the job.
        E) You seem to think threats of violence matter less, or at least their severity and response should be based on whether or not violence has occurred.
        F) You have stated that threat of violence made in the heat of the moment is somehow less severe than an insult being made also in the heat of the moment.

        Are these enough reasons for you?

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