“What would you do?” was the question posed to the high-school drop-out inbreds on the ‘Shit Aussies say’ Facebook page. No less than 178 people called for the death of the asylum seekers and this antibogan post doesn’t even account for the literally hundreds of people merely calling for them to ‘piss off home and stop stealing our jobs/tax dollars’ (paraphrased).
This was one Facebook post on a page where racism and discrimination is rampant to say the very least. Are these people Australians? I’d like to say no. But unfortunately it seems as though this kind of behaviour – and the very obvious and evident support for bombing and killing non-whites (something the same people would despise terrorists for) is becoming far too common in this country.
you said it... 
You realise that each person who comes by boat takes a place away from someone who has been waiting possibly YEARS in a refugee camp right? Australia takes a hard limit of 13,500 refugees per year from all sources. That means each person who comes in by boat takes away from someone coming in from a camp who has done the right thing. I have full sympathy for the people wanting to seek asylum, but I don’t think they have the right to do so at another person’s expense.
You realise that each person who comes by boat takes a place away from someone who has been waiting possibly YEARS in a refugee camp
WRONG. It is not illegal to seek asylum no matter how or when you arrive here no matter what targets governments may set.
There is a difference between refugees and asylum seekers.
The vast majority of asylum seekers arrive by plane and are processed in the community on arrival.
Some reading for you
https://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/asylum-seekers-the-myths-are-getting-bigger/
https://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/debunking-myths-about-refugees-and-asylum-seekers/
https://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/refugee-week-the-highs-and-the-lowly-lows/
And the REAL “boat people problem” in this country?
People are fleeing for their lives. Do you think they give a fuck about another country’s capped limit on humanitarian placement? Would you?
Does Allan realise or want to realise the biggest problems are those who overstay their Visa’s and Alan and the other gutless wonders who are all talk is now silent on this issue WHY?
“I have full sympathy for the people wanting to seek asylum, but I don’t think they have the right to do so at another person’s expense.”
Hi Allan. You mean well, so let’s be nice about this.
Did you know that Australia is the ONLY country which ties its off shore intake with its on shore intake? That’s right, Australia is the only country who has set up the system you are complaining about, resulting in each asylum seeker who arrives creating one less place from a refugee camp. And this has only been in place for the last 15 years. So why are you complaining about asylum seekers fleeing for their lives, when it’s not them who created the system that disadvantages those in refugee camps, it’s the government.
But you want asylum seekers to wait in line, and think about other people waiting in camps. I have an issue with this for two reasons.
1) How selfless are you? Think about this-a lot of what you have done with your life will come at the expense, directly or indirectly of another person. Do you consider all these other people before you make a decision? Say you get offerred a job-do you ensure there is no one who has been looking for work for longer who needs work more who is applying for the job also? No, of course not, you accept it. Maybe you buy a house-do you check if a more needy family needs the house, and has been searching for a home for longer? No, of course not, you buy the house. University course-you choose what’s right for you, and don’t care about who misses out. Hospital operation, you accept an operation if needed and don’t worry about those who are waiting for surgery.
I’m not condemning you. We all do it. We all put our own self interests first. There’s nothing wrong with that, and to be honest, if you don’t care about the health of yourself and those you love above that of other people, there is something wrong with you.
What is wrong is this self interest which you and I both have, you are condemning in asylum seekers in the extreme. In the above examples I gave, the other people you needed to consider before deciding to take their place were a small population, probably lived nearby-a couple of hundred at mosts. You are condemning asylum seekers for not considering the needs of entire populations of people, numbered in their thousands, above their own. How is it fair to hold an asylum seeker to this impossible standard, while at the same time not even coming close to holding yourself to the same standard?
2) How would you do it differently? Say you’re an Hazara asylum seeker, fleeing from Afghanistan. What would you do to seek asylum in a way that you would think is fair? Go to the refugee camp? Where? Where is safe from the Taliban?
Afghanistan is way out.
Pakistan is largely under the control of the Taliban currently, so you couldn’t stop there.
Malaysia, Indonesia-well you (might) be safe from the Taliban, but you wouldn’t be able to work or earn money legally-so how exactly would you live?
Tell me-in this situation, what would you do to survive, if you/re rulling out seeking asylum?
Let’s put forward a reasonable argument to hide the underlying hatred we have for these people who are “different” to us. The truth is they all have a right to come here but the Australian government has set an arbitrarily low limit on the number they will accept. Why? Because it’s pandering to people like you.
Exactly. It is disappointing that Labor has timidly sold out to the bogan me-me-me vote instead of doing the logical thing (and the cheaper thing) and processing asylum seekers on the mainland in the community as the Fraser Government was happy to do.
It was to be expected that the Libs would go down the bogan vote path ever since their dog-whistler in chief Howard ramped up the fear.
…and in doing so the Labor party missed a golden opportunity to differentiate themselves from the Liberals. Australians have shown many times that they admire people who stand up for their principles in the face of opposition. Let’s hope we get some politicians with the courage to stand for something in the not-too-distant future.
You do realise that between Afghanistan and New Zealand the only country that recognises UN protocols is us? There are no UN refugee camps for them to sit on a waiting list and apply?
I commented, saying that I’d get my Marrickville mates together, to find homes, food, blankets, and toys for the asylum seekers. Then I wrote another post, suggesting that the racists that posted would be too gutless to tackle one asylum seeker in a fair fight. The cowardly admin fuckers deleted my second post.
I hope whoever wrote this article dies in a fire you hairy bitch
Cool story bro.
So, just to be clear, people wanting a new life, eager to be involved in any industry that helps them survive-not welcomed in Australia. Guy who wants people who disagree with him to burn to death-is welcome in Australia.
Why thank you cuntface for recognising that this poster must be inherently female. 🙂
We are NOT racist.. we merely want fairness.. when australians are doing without.. and asylum seekers get the world.. it isn’t right. Simple really! I love ppl from ALL walks of life.. wherever in the world they come from – if they are having a GO at living our life.. then let them stay.. if they’re here for the free feed, the free car, free housing and health.. then SEND them back.. we can’t even afford to keep our own country in good health.. *I* have friends suffering who have been here since birth.. is THAT fair? No….
Asylum seekers ‘get the world’? Are you fucking high? Get a fucking education you dipshit. Why don’t you look up exactly what asylum seekers and refugees are entitled to?
And Mindmadeup, why don’t you research exactly what our disabled persons both young and old are entitled to…. as a mother of a child with Autism I find that I have to leave my family and friends and move to a more rural area just to make sure he has the best chance at an education. There are no services for quite a lot of disabled Australians but these “refugees” just walk into a post office with their bills, quote a Centrelink number and all the bills are paid without money changing hands! I have them living behind me and their cars are better than mine and I had to ask for my Superannuation to buy it! I needed it to get my son to doctor and specialist appointments! I live in an area where the Govt are placing quite a lot of these “refugees”, our crime rate has increased 200% in the last 5 years. AUSTRALIANS FIRST! These “refugees” get more than Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders They get EVERYTHING handed to them and hard working Australians are sick of seeing their taxes being diverted to these people instead to hospitals, roads, public transport etc.
And Mindmadeup, why don’t you research exactly what our disabled persons both young and old are entitled to….
Yes it’s called the NDIS and it went through the Parliament this year. In the meantime there are numerous state grants which if you are really the mother of a child on the autism spectrum you will be familiar with. There is also the Carer’s Payment and/or the Carer’s Allowance for children under the age of 16.
I don’t have to do your homework for you. Unless of course you offer to pay me.
I find that I have to leave my family and friends and move to a more rural area just to make sure he has the best chance at an education.
Huh? Please explain. It’s normally the other way around. And since when has somebody from Melbourne’s inner suburbs been severely disadvantaged in terms of the location of services for ASD children?
these “refugees” just walk into a post office with their bills, quote a Centrelink number and all the bills are paid without money changing hands!
Bullshit!
…our crime rate has increased 200% in the last 5 years.
Nonsense!
Do you think we believe such figures without evidence? You know the stuff with facts in it?
Rest of your post = cut-and-paste hate.
ASDMUMTHINKS AUSTRALIANS are too busy ranting in here and watching Today Tonight to do any do research to see their claims are clearly based on emotions not facts like her claims “There are no services for quite a lot of disabled Australians” “but these “refugees” just walk into a post office with their bills, quote a Centrelink number and all the bills are paid without money changing hands”.
But WHY would someone move to a Rural Area to get a better education for their son?
Especially when Rural students are moving to cities to get an education.
ASDMUMTHINKS AUSTRALIANS FIRST should be happy or sad to know, that some of The Liberal Government (In QLD The LNP) didn’t even wanted The NDIS and are in fact cutting back on services. for Disabled
Thanks to their own rants, ASDMUMTHINKS AUSTRALIANS FIRST has proven their own research is based on watching shows like Today Tonight, A Current Affair, Bolt Report, reading News Ltd Papers and listening to The Shock Jocks.
Moving to a rural area where there are lack of hospitals, roads, public transport, education etc ?
She lives in Melton RH. Not all that rural.
another correction… superannuation companies will not pay out your super fund so you can buy a car unless if you are of retirement age and then you can take your money out when ever you want for what ever you want… superannuation funds WILL NOT pay under fiancial hardship either… cars are considered a luxury and therefore any payment requested for anything to do with cars are rejected under financial hardship…. internet and telephone bills are also rejecte under financial harship as they are too considered a luxury…
with regards to services and schools for children with autism… try again… there are schools and services…
“as a mother of a child with Autism I find that I have to leave my family and friends and move to a more rural area just to make sure he has the best chance at an education.”
This has nothing to do with asylum seekers. Asylum seekers are not effecting the quality of teaching to autistic children in anyway.
” There are no services for quite a lot of disabled Australians”
There are carer respite centres, disability advocacy groups, council supports, information lines-what sort of services were you looking for?
” but these “refugees” just walk into a post office with their bills, quote a Centrelink number and all the bills are paid without money changing hands!”
Firstly-“refugees” they are refugees. They have to have their claims analysed against the definition of refugee made in the UN Refugee Declaration, stating that a refugee is someone who is in fear for their life due to their race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality or political belief. I have met many asylum seekers hwo have been rejected because they do not meet this defintion, even when they have been in fear for their life for a different reason (In particular abused women fleeing their husband, and a country that doesn’t recognise the rights of divorced women)-so on what basis are you implying that refugees are not real.
Secondly-the story is a load of bunk-where on earth did you hear such a ridiculous story. I have got plenty of asylum seekers who come with me with thier bills and they have no one paying them, and my organisation doesn’t pay them either. We ask for a waiverrarely get it, and usually have to settle for a payment plan. For the record, these are all things that EVERY Australian is entitled to receive.
” I have them living behind me and their cars are better than mine”
So? Are you absolutely sure they don’t work hard to afford to get the car? The government does not give asylum seekers or refugees cars-they don’t even help them get driving lessons! Some charities do provide some lessons-and you have to beg to get them!
” and I had to ask for my Superannuation to buy it!”
So, refugees are to blame for you being unable to buy a car, even though refugees are not given a car, and have to work for it themselves? Quick question-do you blame your other neighbours for having better looking cars, or is it just the “refugee” looking ones who are the problem?
Incidentally, how do you know they’re refugees? They could just be migrants, you know. Skilled migrants tend to have a bit more money than refugees.
” I needed it to get my son to doctor and specialist appointments! ”
Again, did you think about calling up the carer respite service nearest to you? Through them you should be able to access: taxi vouchers, attendant care, and link up to other ongoing transport services (I can’t say which services are available as I don’t know your region, but in Victoria we have three separate transport services ALL carers can access).
“seeing their taxes being diverted to these people instead to hospitals, roads, public transport etc.”
How exactly has funding to hospitals, roads and public transport, etc, been cut due to asylum seekers? Last time I checked funding for definately hospital and public transport has actually been increased in the last few budgets.
But in all seriousness, if you are looking for help with your son, give the national carers line a call:
1800 242 636
Whoops-forgot these parts:
“I live in an area where the Govt are placing quite a lot of these “refugees”, our crime rate has increased 200% in the last 5 years.”
200%? You know, if you’re going to make up a statistic, at least make it realistic. Like 13% or even 83%-it still is just as made up, but someone may be convinced. Whereas any round number, especially a number saying that the crime rate has exactly doubled (And is that all crimes have exactly doubled? Wow-that’s some systematic planning going on there!) will spring anyone’s bull shit meter.
Anyway, I know you’ll never show it, but where is your source for this incredible spike in crime.
“These “refugees” get more than Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders”
How? How exactly do refugees get more than ATSI people? Please give a specific example, considering both are entitled to the same payments (Newstart), with no additional amounts given to asylum seekers for being asylum seekers.
” They get EVERYTHING handed to them ”
What exactly is being handed to them that all other Australians are not also entitled to? Free health care? Well-all Australians get that. Access to new start allowance-all Australians are entitled to that too. Public housing-all Australians are entitled to the same public housing.
Please, please please let me know what do asylum seeekrs and refugees get that you and I aren’t entitled to also.
bullshit!
The posts made on that FB site yet again make me cringe at the state of our country, and what I hear so often from workmates, friends, and the everyday person on the street. I was brought up that everyone deserves a fair go in life no matter who they are or where they are from. The people that go on about ‘illegal refugees’ are using a term made famous by John Howard and his government, and it is a complete inaccuracy – seeking asylum is not illegal. I don’t agree at all with the comments made by ASDMUM THINKS….. I have a son with autism, and never have I been concerned that government money that is invested into supporting asylum seekers should be redirected to others. I would however like to make a comment in regard to some people’s replies to this poster in relation to services, government assistance, etc. This varies from state to state. NDIS is in a trial phase, and it could be several years before it becomes a reality. There are not numerous grants available to the families of children with ASD. Fachsia introduced 2 years of funding for specific interventions as long as your child is under the age of 7. Your child may receive some medicare related sessions with an allied health professional (my son’s most recent application was sent into Medicare for approval in July – the doctor is still waiting for a response – and we are talking a whole 6 sessions with a speech pathologist) – my son is nonverbal. Your child is entitled to 20 Medicare funded sessions up until the age of 12. Carers Support and Respite is a joke, a weekend of respite has to be booked almost a year in advance where I live unless it’s an emergency. A friend who’s son is also autistic rang up in crisis a year ago – they contacted her 4 days later to see if she still needed assistance! Carers allowance is $100 a fortnight – that doesn’t even pay for my son’s toileting products (he is not toilet trained but because this is not considered to be a life long aspect of his autism he is not entitled to any reduction on toileting products). I have no choice as to where my son goes to school as I live and work in a regional area, and the funding for the children in the special education unit there has been slashed to be redirected to students in mainstream classes with additional needs which in turn means my son and his classmates cannot even go out for a walk to the oval now as they don’t have enough support staff. As I said, I totally disagree with the original post of ASDMUM and her comments in regard to refugees, however countering her arguments with inaccurate statements in regard to disability services in this country is unfair on the thousands of families who are struggling daily to provide services and opportunities for our children with additional/special needs.
We are NOT racist.. we merely want fairness
Rubbish!
…when australians are doing without.
Doing without WHAT??
…if they’re here for the free feed, the free car, free housing and health
Fairy tales!! Stop reading the gutter press and listening to the crap media. Read the links we posted for someone else on this thread.
*I* have friends suffering who have been here since birth.. is THAT fair? No….
Yeah we all have war stories. But your “friends” are not fleeing terrible wars and oppressive dictatorships in fear of their lives.
“*I* have friends suffering who have been here since birth.. is THAT fair? No….” Being friends with this idiot, I can see why their so called friends are suffering.
Is it FAIR that you were born in a stable democratic prosperous country and other people were born into a war zone?? Idiot.
Randy should get a child to proof read his own rants, as they well say it is proof they do not “love ppl from ALL walks of life”.
” if they are having a GO at living our life.. then let them stay..”
Surely the deciding factor should be “Are they actually in danger of their life if they return to their home country”?
” if they’re here for the free feed, the free car, free housing and health.. then SEND them back.. ”
Pt 1-No asylum seeker gets a free house, or a free car. They get, at best, a room run by a charity or the community detention program. They do not get a car at all. The vast majority of housing asylum seekers access is the same housing all Australians at risk of homelessness access-crisis accomodation. And what a luzury that isn’t. In terms of a free feed-outside of detention that doesn’t happen much either with again most free food sources open to all Australians. Where did you get this idea that asylum seekers get access to a car and a house?
Pt 2- All asylum seekers in order to stay in Australia permanently are required to meet the definition of a refugee as stated in the UN charter. So that means they have to demonstrate that they are in a significant danger in their home coutnry due to their religion, culture, ethnicity, sexuality or political belief. Considering many clients I have met have been rejected because while they were in danger of their life, they didn’t meet this exact diagnoses (If a client can relocatei n their own country, they would be rejected, women fleeing abusive husbands would be rejected)-please tell me how you think asylum seekers who are just coming for welfare are getting through.
“we can’t even afford to keep our own country in good health.. ”
Well, our health rankings are actually better than most. Our life expectancy is pretty high. But the big issue is our ageing population, which is taking up a lot of funds. And we’ll need funds to pay for their health needs-funds from taxes, which working young people provide.
Working young people like….you guessed it-refugees!
“*I* have friends suffering who have been here since birth.. is THAT fair? No….”
No it’s not fair. How exactly is it the asylum seeker’s fault that your friends are sufferring? Have your friends got a disease that an asylum seeker caused, or is hiding the cure for?
It seems you are blaming asylum seekers for everything that goes wrong in the world. Have you ever actually met any of them?
where are the likes on this page??
JM and Randy, I agree on some points, however despite the despicable conditions refugees and asylum seekers flee from, I find it very confusing that the detainees in Aust’n detention centres are given a payment of approx. $400/wk into their bank account, on top of 5 star accommodation including (restaurant quality) meals, internet, phone access (including OS), and an untold amount of condoms, medical attention and psych care, free legal aid etc. etc. I don’t remember ever being entitled to any of these things when I was an unemployed person for about 2.5 years with a teenage daughter…(dont really care about the condoms I must say..>!) in fact I was only ‘entitled’ when forced to seek charity to pay for electricity or rent- to help once every 6 months (a gov’t placed rule). These are actual FACTS people, as I actually know people who work in a Detention Ctr in Nth Aus. where I live, and have also had report on this from those in detention, who told a work colleague (one who helped BUILD the place) of what goes on. I know any person on a single pension (whether old age, single parent or whatever) only is ‘entitled’ to about $290-/wk to live off- which covers virtually nothing but rent these days. Oh, and did I mention the $10k these A.S’s or Ref’s get when processed?, to get a house, furniture, etc…? I certainly never got a red cent when I was destitute with a child at one stage- I remember actually having to camp out illegally in another persons property in a half open shed, because I wasn’t ‘entitled’ to help to get a house with the help of DoH (due to the 1 year time limit of help….) It just seems to me that there is an extreme imbalance of fiscal aid gong to the majority of the influx here. I was born here and worked all my life since 18, for over 31 years now, had 2 years of not being able to find work at all after the GFC and had no car, was evicted after the death of a flat mate and couldn’t pay rent or my way with my child, who – after she was 16, I was entitled to even less- (no more FTB), and still expected to survive> and HAD to look for work further afield or have no pension at all??.
These handouts are not discouraging asylum seekers from going about arriving in the way they do because they know that even if they don’t get processed to stay in Aus, that the money they can transfer back to their fam’s in Afghanistan, or wherever they come form, is about 500-1000% more than the average wage, thus creating a passive income for those not even on our shores! (this can go on for 6mths to 2 years in some cases) To me this is inequitable and only makes Residents of this country feel not only undervalued but also that the tax burden on the average Australian this is causing is- well- frankly- not really our problem! If other countries mistreat their citizens so badly as to make them risk their lives and come to another country in a tuna-can boat, then isn’t it the responsibility of the UN to see this come to an end? Equity in the hand-outs would be a BIG start in seeing this influx turn around just a bit.
PS- I have no prob’s with genuine asylum seekers- in fact I have employed a few in the past and they are great employees who are grateful and hard-working…. I just think that the inequity of the hand-out situation needs serious overhaul Julia! (I note that my comment on this post originally- was not listed, and content basically was the same as above…).
The solutions to this growing prob;
-eliminate the handout $ while in detention- its not needed as they get all they need while in DC’s – (it only gets sent OS anyway- so we are funding the underprivileged in countless 3rd world countries)
-1000 hours of community service (over 16’s)- carried out while in process stage (would give training and skills for future employment and create goodwill for the community- they do it with prisoners, so why not?)
– UN pressure to impose trade bans on countries with more than 1-200 defectors/PA
– send boats back no matter what- all must apply for Temp protection visa to gain access to detention centre for processing ( applications through Aus/& other Embassies Internationally)
(this puts the people smugglers out of business straight away- they are profiting from peoples misfortune and it should be not tolerated at all.)
$480 Billion/PA spent on foreign aid (including this situation) ?? Will this put Australia even further into debt? Yes, it has, and IS!! Something has to change, don’t tell me or any other Aussie that we should put ourselves into debt and raise taxes to help (in effect) other countries to continue conducting genocide and murder of their own people! This goes for other countries facing the same dilemma too.
I find it very confusing that the detainees in Aust’n detention centres are given a payment of approx. $400/wk into their bank account, on top of 5 star accommodation including (restaurant quality) meals, internet, phone access (including OS), and an untold amount of condoms, medical attention and psych care, free legal aid etc. etc
OK maybe you’ll believe Kochie if you don’t believe the government.
http://www.kochie.com.au/the-real-benefits-for-asylum-seekers-in-australia
Detention centres are NOT “5 star accommodation”. They barely fulfil the minimum OH&S requirements for any accommodation.
The food is adequate. Probably hospital grade. No gourmet dishes in mandatory detention. However in certain prisons the inmates have the opportunity to work in the kitchen while learning skills and prepare food for the other prisoners and we are told the food is not too bad.
Kindly remember that asylum seekers are not criminals and supposedly are not in prison. Hence they have the right to phone and Internet access.
We all have social welfare horror stories, either our own or “someone we know”. How about getting the wealthiest people in the country to pay their fair share of tax rather than punishing asylum seekers?
-1000 hours of community service (over 16′s)- carried out while in process stage
Guess what, I have a better idea. It is called access to school and TAFE. You don’t learn English nor do you gain many marketable skills doing community service.
– UN pressure to impose trade bans on countries with more than 1-200 defectors/PA
Countries of origin of refugees are either failed states, dictatorships or embroiled in wars often engendered by the West – Iraq is a good example. These countries would have a simple solution for returned refugees – they will execute them.
Well that would make the bogots happy. Even better than drowning them.
This goes for other countries facing the same dilemma too.
Australia takes a tiny tiny number of refugees and asylum seekers compared to other countries.
And yet we have the harshest response.
Have you stopped to consider the fact we are bombing and shooting up their country at the beck and call of the US NATO and UK? Maybe there would be less need for them to come here if we left them alone. The solutions to problems like the Taliban are in Afghanistan by Afghans, not military adventures from abroad to secure lucrative access to resources, oil and gas pipeline routes, and strategic posturing around Iran, look on a map and see where the US is deployed, Iran is encircled!! This is no war on terror, it is US imperialism and doing Israels dirty work for their so called existential threats. Remember Iraq and WMD’s, none found, remember Iraq and Osirik 1 when it was bombed by Israel, no weapons program infrastructure or fuels were found, by the IAEA.
As a refugee from Gaza who was brought here by my parents in 1970, I can attest to Dave’s comment, above. Sadly the situation in my birthplace hasn’t changed in the 42 years I’ve been here. We don’t hear about most of the persecution that goes on there and yet certain world powers can’t bring themselves to even criticise the oppressors. No wonder refugees and asylum seekers have no hope that things will get better in their homelands and take extraordinary measures to find better lives for their families. What would you do in their shoes?
I believe all sides of every conflict including the likes of Israel and Palestine have good and bad players. However having said that I want to put the refugee bashers on notice. I want them to live the life your parents took you away from in 1970, for just 1 month and then see if they will try their hardest to get themselves and there loved ones to safety. Bravo to your parents, you owe them a debt of gratitude I can never imagine.
Ooo-kay, let’s get started:
“JM and Randy, I agree on some points,”
Nice, gives us something to work from. What exactly did you agree with?
” top of 5 star accommodation including (restaurant quality) meals, ”
5 star accomodation? Please, name me other five star hotels that are surrounded in razor wire.
Incidentally, the food is what we call in the University “slops”-food that requires little meat, a lot of sauce, and can be made to spread out to a large number of people. Essentially, it’s the multicultural version of a soup kitchen. How many 5 star restaurants that would serve such cheap food?
“internet, phone access (including OS) , and an untold amount of condoms, medical attention and psych care, free legal aid etc. etc. I don’t remember ever being entitled to any of these things when I was an unemployed person for about 2.5 years with a teenage daughter”
You did have access to almost all of these. Internet is freely available at various points in Australia, most particularly every single library (I used this a lot when I was unemployed-30 minutes applying for jobs, 30 minutes searching for jobs). Condoms-if you absolutely need them, can be organised through a sex health clinic at a free or greatly reduced cost. Medical attention and psychiatric care is provided through Medicare. Legal aid is offerred free throguh a variety of phone lines (In Victoria its Victorian Legal Aid) and community legal centres.
Admittedly, you probably weren’t aware you had access to these. But then again, if you were forcibly restrained inside a prison for a few months, you would have greater awareness of what you could access.
And a lot of what you complain asylum seekers in detention have access to are in place because they are in asylum. Asylum seekers in the communtiy do not have access to food, accomodation, etc. They do have access to legal aid, just as you do, and to medical attention, if they have work rights (Which many asylum seekers don’t). This is because those in the community are expected to find all these things themselves and work for them. So if you want to join me in calling for an end to detention-then please, join in, and let’s end detention.
” know any person on a single pension (whether old age, single parent or whatever) only is ‘entitled’ to about $290-/wk to live off- which covers virtually nothing but rent these days.”
Fun fact, $290 p/w is more than what an asylum seeker gets. The fortnightly Red Cross payment (If they get it-the majority of asylum seekers do not) is 85% of the lowest Centrelink payment. And the asylum seekers who receive that payment have to manage rent as well, without an access to Rent Assistance from centrelink.
“Oh, and did I mention the $10k these A.S’s or Ref’s get when processed?”
Nope, Because it doesn’t happen. I’ve worked with many asylum seekers, and I’ve heard of them spending a lot of money (Thousands of dollars) on legal fees, health checks, police checks, etc, but yet to find them receive $10,000 when they are accepted as a refugee.
“I remember actually having to camp out illegally in another persons property in a half open shed, because I wasn’t ‘entitled’ to help to get a house with the help of DoH (due to the 1 year time limit of help….) ”
Did you not contact your local Transitional Housing Management service? That’s what you’re entitled to access, just as all Australians can access.
If you’ve got a particularly good THM (Sadly, not to common) they’ll even work with you to find property, but will be able to fund a few weeks of rent to get you back on your feet.
“These handouts are not discouraging asylum seekers from going about arriving in the way they do because they know that even if they don’t get processed to stay in Aus, that the money they can transfer back to their fam’s in Afghanistan, ”
Except that the asylum seekers who do live in the community (And again, the ones in detention don’t get payments) don’t receive enough to live, let alone send back. As you’ve just said, $290 a week is not enough to live, as most of it will be taken up in rent-but asylum seekers get less than that!
” If other countries mistreat their citizens so badly as to make them risk their lives and come to another country in a tuna-can boat, then isn’t it the responsibility of the UN to see this come to an end?”
So….you want the UN to declare war on all countries where asylum seekers come from? You want an all powerful UN invading countries and overpowering their leaders?
Isn’t that what the crew that hate asylum seekers are afraid of?
” I have no prob’s with genuine asylum seekers- in fact I have employed a few in the past and they are great employees who are grateful and hard-working…”
Except you’ve just said that they’re cheating you because they have access to things you also have access with.
And please, let me know the difference between a genuine and non-genuine asylum seeker. Because if you are talking about people who came from the camps-then you have not met an asylum seeker, you have met a refugee. If you are talking about people who ocme on planes, thye have a lower rate as being accepted as refugees than those who come by boats. So who are the asylum seekers who you think are non-genuine?
“-1000 hours of community service (over 16′s)- carried out while in process stage (would give training and skills for future employment and create goodwill for the community- they do it with prisoners, so why not?)”
Asylum seekers are not prisoners, or criminals. That’s why not.
Incidentally, asylum seekers would actually like to do something with thier time (Unless they have health issues restricting them-such as the elderly may have). That’s work and study. Why not allow them to do that, instead of forcing them to work in a way you set like they’ve committed a crime.
After all, studying will actually give them training and skills for future employment, and working will actually give an asylum seeker employment, creating taxable revenue and contributions to Australia. This, in turn, creates community good will. Why not that instead of enforced communtiy service?
“- UN pressure to impose trade bans on countries with more than 1-200 defectors/PA”
So, the UN is putting sanctions on countries to prevent asylum seekers fleeing there. Which has worked so well in Iraq, Iran,-you never see asylum seekers from those countries, anymore!
“- send boats back no matter what- all must apply for Temp protection visa to gain access to detention centre for processing ( applications through Aus/& other Embassies Internationally)”
How exactly does an Afghani asylum seeker apply for protection? We don’t have an embassy in Afghanistan. Same in Iran. In other countries, such as Nigeria, where we do have embassies, they must wait 18 months for processing. Do you think the warlord who is trying to kill you will patiently wait 18 months for your application to be processed?
Also, temporary protection visas don’t exist anymore. You could never get them from an embassy, you could only get them onshore.
So, if you are an Afghani asylum seeker, Tina, you are telling me, that you think the correct way to go about things would be to build an Australian embassy, employ staff, set up contact points with Canberra, then apply for a protection visa, wait 18 months and hope the Taliban is busy elsewhere.
Can you see why this wouldn’t exactly work?
Incidentally-where do you send the boats back to? Most boats are coming from Indonesia-but Indonesia has refused to accept any returning boats. So, we either accept the boats, or leave them to drown at sea. (Or declare war with Indonesia by forcing asylum seeker boats into their ports).
Can you see why only one of these is a feasible option?
$480 billion per annum is a bad made up number. This is roughly 25% of the GDP. A better made up number would be $30-$40 billion, much more believable. The true number is actually around $4.8 billion, but don’t let facts get in your way.
Well, that’s interesting. Because I also know people who have worked in these places, and because of the job I do I’m betting that I know more than you do. And those people have told me that they have come close to nervous breakdowns because they couldn’t cope with seeing how asylum seekers are treated. I’ve demonstrated outside a detention centre and saw the detainees who were daring to wave back at us get tear gassed and water cannoned. I’ve spoken to a lot of former detainees and it didn’t sound like they had come from any sort of five star hotel I’ve ever stayed in.
Playing off one vulnerable group against another is what our governments and certain sections of the media are very good at. Try thinking for yourself. Why should good provision of services and a humane and human response to asylum seekers be mutually exclusive? We are a rich country and if resources are allocated correctly and fairly we can provide both. You would do better agitating for such, rather than spending your time with the sort of media which informs your paranoid fantasies.
Mo, a waste of time energy and effort on your behalf. I would love to take that 178 people, put them into the country and circumstances the refugees face daily, for a month or so, lack of food, no medical, check points, fear at night that your young men will be taken for fighting, or beheaded if they were seen talking to coalition staff. Then stick them on a leaky boat after going through a few countries to get access to the boat. Once they get here subject them to the same treatment they think is so generous, and then get people to abuse and vilify them daily for a few months to see if they like it. If they still think the same way then that is their problem, if they changed their tune bonus!
It is your article that fuels racism – the original post just asked for a comment, peoples response were mostly typical of mainstream aussies. All talk and no action. Even our pollies can’t agree on the subject. They talk while people drown. Less media coverage on idiotic responses and more coverage on humane solutions would be better journalism.
Fuck you Sue. Our article does not fuel racism. The fact that people like you want to blow up people that don’t look like you fuels racism.
…the original post just asked for a comment, peoples response were mostly typical of mainstream aussies
By no stretch of the imagination are those freaks “mainstream Aussies”. If by any horrible event they are we hope the North Koreans drop a nuke here quickly. They are not fit to occupy the earth.
They talk while people drown
Do you really think for a minute that they give a stuff whether asylum seekers drown or not? Of course they don’t. They are frightened because the asylum seekers are …gasp…not white people and may have different religious beliefs to them.
“Fuck Off We’re Full” has a long history in this country
http://ergo.slv.vic.gov.au/image/news-item-jewish-refugees-letters-editor
So Sue wanting to blow up others is not racism and is ok?
So, Sue, somehow having their comments about murdering innocent men women and children at sea was actually the cause of racism. Somehow having these comments go public caused a change going backwards in time causing the comments to be made in the first place?
I didn’t know that TAB was somehow being run through the large Hadron Collider, but I will certainly be further intrigued in future. Can I send other messages back in time-how about the lotto numbers?
Remember when we use to be “The Clever Country”?
This is why nobody says that anymore
You know, you’re right, Zulu. I hear from friends and family overseas that Australia has developed the reputation of being a racist country overseas in the last decade or so.
So much herp-derp combined with total lack of humanity. Throw in terrible spelling and a complete lack of intelligence, and this is what you get.
If I have to read that load of crap statement about them getting more than an aged pensioner one more time, I think I’ll vomit. How bloody stupid can people be?
Wow, I thought just USA had this problem. Why are they leaving Indonesia? Are they persecuted by the Muslim population? Guess it would depend on why they are seeking asylum….
Are they persecuted by the Muslim population?
Contrary to bogotic belief, not all refugees are Muslim. Many are Christian, the Tamils are Hindu with a few Christians, there are even more Christians from Iraq and Syria, also Buddhists and followers of Bahai.
This may answer your question
http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/11/22/beaten-and-bruised-graphic-photos-of-a-detention-escapee/
Few asylum seekers come from Indonesia (Some, sure, but it’s not a major source at this time). Most who come from Indonesia are trying to get to Australia, because in Indonesia they have no right to work or earn money, and cannot live and establish themselves. After all, how could any of us live in a country where we have no right to work legally?
There’s also the issue that Indoneisa can deport asylum seekers without warning. It’s hard to settle in a country you can be deported in at any moment’s notice.
They are leaving Indonesia to get to a country that recognises the UN protocols on refugees. To a country where they can actually apply for asylum and gain refugee status. There is nowhere else for them to go unless they travel a thousand km north to Cambodia or a thousand km further east to New Zealand.
Its surprising all the people using the whole “our tax money *winge winge*”. They are human beings for f sake. Are they forgetting that once these people get their feet on the ground they enter the workforce? They will earn money, pay taxes and contribute to society themselves. Quite frankly I’m sure these people will work harder then many of the redneck/bogan people that post such cruel hate towards a group of people they simply don’t understand or have any knowledge on (although they talk as if they do). Disgusting.
o.k. i guess it is generally accepted that ignorance= fear, and look’s like here a cross section of angry people channelling their inner homicidal urges.from what i’v seen, heard and people i’v listened to about this subject they refuse to change their minds when presented with fact’s any type of education is usless they are just angry. and can express themselves freely in anonimity most wouldn’t say anything like this in public alone. they rant in pack’s and unfortunetly in person if one or more are present eg;’ bus incident’ [.if only one racist bogan was on that bus that day, it never would have happened.] they become like shark’s in a feeding frenzy and go nut’s.coward’s alway’s stick together. i have no answer to the above insanity.i think when “the boat’s” stopped coming the attack’s just change target’s – media driven- to ah let’s say dole bludger’s, single mother’s, any soft target’s so if fact’s are a waste of time …..then what gives…seem’s to be just………. US against THEM…… isn’t that what we are trying to stop ? how can you explain fact’s when people don’t want to know. HELP….
NLOL that’s the problem. Many Australians believe the myth that immigrants come here to sit on the dole and don’t contribute to society. I have not doubt that some do but, to state the bleeding obvious, every society has good and bad people and that’s just life. As with most groups of people, the vast majority are honest, hard-working people who do work and pay their taxes like the rest of us. Trying to get this across to someone whose views are tainted by racism is a futile exercise. They don’t respond to logic because their argument isn’t based on logic. They might respond to personal experience, which is why I always advocate the community BBQ as a solution to our social problems. 🙂
Looking forward to the flood of emails from people who realise their name and ‘racism’ now appear together in search engines. Sometimes I just wanna hug the WWW.
“Sometimes I just wanna hug the WWW.”
LOL, morgone.
Maybe now they will realise that come the sons 21st and mum and dads racist rants come out. Though the one I liked most on the Shit Aussies Say page was the mum with the racist rants and lots of pictures of her sons Buddhist wedding. Lots of explaining there I think.
a refugee leaves their borders because of threat to life or existence and should be given asylum ,However a lot of these asylum seekers have traveled through many countries where they are already safe then pay large amounts of money to cross to Australia , therefore they are no longer refugees but are trying to go where they want to be.For that reasons they should be treated as illegal immigrants and imprisoned or sent back and they people doing the right thing in camps waiting be let in.(is amazing that they come from poverty and desert regions have enough money to get on the boats and then have the hide to threaten hunger strikes etc because they dont like the conditions they are in UNGRATEFUL AND RUDE TO THINK THEY CAN JUMP QUEUE INVADE AND THEN DEMAND
So it’s heaps easy to get a job in Indonesia and Malaysia when you’re an asylum seeker I’ve heard.
Of course we are going to take seriously someone whose fake e mail address is “dick_cheez”
Don’t bother returning…
DICK
dick_cheez2000@yahoo.com.au
49.176.67.249
George
Hardley69@hotmail.com
49.176.3.124
ISP: Optus Internet Pty Ltd
Region: Chatswood (AU)
mindmadeup i do like you and you are very funny i love reading your comment’s and agree..just thought i’d through that in…
Seriously.. Posting their IP.. Not very nice.. They’re just giving their thoughts as you have asked.. *shrugs* I’m enjoying the read anyway.. From both sides.
Wanting to blow up someone is some fuckwit and coward is just giving their thoughts?
PS But having a profile photo of The Ford Logo, but calling yourself “Bentley Ross”?
Seriously.. Posting their IP.. Not very nice
Routine when they are trolls.
They’re just giving their thoughts as you have asked
Not interested in hosting trolls.
…ooh someone knows how to use IP look up! … it would be futile tracing mine you’ll hit 3 other continents before you even get near… i must say while comments are valid attempting to quash those that oppose is ultimately pointless..it wont change their point of view and you only increase the divide between your fellow people. [TRUNCATED FOR IRRELEVANT TROLLERY]
you need people like Dick and George to oppose as they have the courage to speak up
tl;dr
not interested in acronyms
(too long didn’t read)
Your yawn inducing rant was not read all the way through. Cool?
Johan for a christian you do scare me…..
Johan is a troll. Check out the “e mail”.
mindmadeupisapenis@youjustgotbitchslapped.org
ha fuckme mindmadeup here i am looking thru Johans scriptures /bibles/ shitknows what website for the acronyn… tl;dr… and its exactly what it is…not good on friday night after a few wines with working today…..need to tell people so they dont need to do that scary stuff ….for goodness sake …too funny
“it would be futile tracing mine you’ll hit 3 other continents before you even get near…”
You use 3 proxy accounts to post on a blog on a wordpress site? What is wrong with you?
Do you set up a proxy phone line to dial up a pizza as well? You seem the sort of person who has skills but uses them when they’re not needed for a false ideal that you’re protecting a privacy that no one is even interested in challenging (Seriously, an IP address only shows a general region, and more importantly, shows when trolls are using multiple identites).
you need people like Dick and George to oppose as they have the courage to speak up
Your trollery is noted. So was theirs.
Ein fehlgeschlagener Troll ist gescheitert
Dummkopf!
😀
And Dick Chezz opinion on people overstaying their visa is silent, because they like those in Facebook is one of them?
“However a lot of these asylum seekers have traveled through many countries where they are already safe”
Which countries are they? Malaysia, where they can’t work legally, meaning they can’t earn any money, and risk deportation and imprisonment at any moment? What about Pakistan where they could be killed by the Taliban? Indonesia? No work rights there either.
How exactly can you be safe in a country where you can never work legally, and can be deported at any time?
“For that reasons they should be treated as illegal immigrants and imprisoned or sent back and they people doing the right thing in camps waiting be let in.”
Absolutely agree we should take in more people from the camps. But how exactly does an Afghani asylum seeker get to Australia in a legal way? To get to any of the above countries would prevent them from living safely and securely. Is there some mythical country where they can live, grow and prosper?
“(is amazing that they come from poverty and desert regions have enough money to get on the boats”
So, just to be clear, if you spend everything you own to get out of the country where your life is threatened, you can’t actually be threatened because you have money? Is that right?
So….in other words, you’re telling me Jews who spent a lot of money fleeing the Nazis were actually not refugees at all and weren’t in danger at all?
” and then have the hide to threaten hunger strikes etc because they dont like the conditions they are in ”
So, an asylum seeker has no right to complain when they are detained for months if not years without charge, with no indication if they would ever be released or if they’ll be deported?
Okay-howzabout this? How about you try it? I mean, this is something which thankfully NO Australian will never experience, no matter how terrible they are. You could go out and kill everyone you see for a day, but when you get arrested, you know exactly where you’ll be from one day to the next, and you know you’ll still be in Australia. This is the human rights that murderers, rapists and paedophiles all have as standard, that asylum seekers don’t get.
Anyway, as I was saying, how about I give you a room to stay in, surround it by razor wire, and refuse to tell you when I’m letting you go outside. Would you complain? At all? If you wouldn’t then let’s do this!
Dick, you’re being a dick. Stop it.
mindmadeup….you are a champion. Thank you
we really need ‘like’ thingy …
agreed, Kate.
Pingback: » The Facebook Post that Featured 178 Australians Who Want to Kill …
Interestng. I commented on that question as well. My rather lengthy comment wasn’t repeated here, presumably because I didn’t call for the boats to be sunk.
I’m not into murdering the helpless, but it seems to me we have become the dumping ground of the South Pacific. I note that Malaysia doesn’t accept refugees and neither does Indonesia. Indonesia is rife with corruption and quietly and covertly support the people smugglers because Indonesia doesn’t want the refugees. Why is it left up to us? Why are we not jumping up and down on the collective heads of all the countries these people pass through on the way here. A refugee was originally someone who needed to leave their own country for their own safety. Fifty years ago, this meant they would stay in the first safe country they came to. I’d suggest that there are several between here and wherever they came from. However these countries won’t accept them, let them work and summarily deport them. Why is it that we don’t do the same? Why is it that we are the only nation in the region taking in refugees? From a purely cultural point of view it’s at least likely many of these people might well be happier in Malaysia or parts of Indonesia. This is nothing to do with race, but culture, particularly religious culture for the Muslims. Yes, they are not the only refugees and possibly not even most of them, but they are a significant number. They might well be happier in Malaysia. But Malaysia doesn’t tolerate refugees, and handball them to Indonesia, which doesn’t tolerate them either. But for some reason we are expected to and are pilloried if we say, ‘Hey, why are we the only country that will take these people?’ Refugees are an international problem it would only be fair that other regional nations accept that and accepted some of the burden of looking after them, or is it a case of ‘the white man’s burden’ rewritten for the 21st Century? I’m not happy with that concept either. So what’s the solution? Is there one? Unless places like Malaysia or Indonesia accept part of the burden, it seems we are the last place in the bucket brigade and this is what many people are getting upset over.
So why do you think refugees don’t belong here and that they’d be happier in countries like Malaysia and Indonesia, whose embrace of democracy and human rights are tenuous at best?
By your assessment the people who post here would not “fit” in with your vision of Australian “culture”.
And we are damned happy not to!
All countries in our region have refugees and asylum seekers in their country. The reason people like you don’t take notice of that Geoff is because those people are often from neighbouring countries like Burma.
New Zealand accepts many refugees and has accepted people we have rejected, who have then gone on to work and contribute to their country.
Whether people like you like it or not Geoff, those fleeing persecution and poverty will keep coming. Wealthy countries like ours have not only exploited the rest of the world, we’ve rubbed their face in it. We’ve created the conditions that have led to people leaving their countries.
The world has experienced many mass migrations. We are in the middle of one and we need to come to terms with that and deal with it. I have a great deal of faith in our system of goverment – if not the way it is currently being conducted – and I believe that people coming here eventually accept our system, settle in and contribute. But if our countries do end up changing in ways that we don’t like, it has been ever thus. It won’t happen in our lifetime, but if we believe in the benefits that have flowed in the west since the enlightenment, then the way to protect them is to understand what they are and what they mean. Not talk about killing vulnerable people.
We have such a shallow grasp of history, and such a small time frame reference, that we forget we are living through one of the great epochs of change. The way the world has developed in the past 250 years is breath taking. We need to remember that, and remember that we are only at the start of something that began with the enlightenment. We need to think about our place in time and everything that has made our countries and us as people.
And people like you Greg need to read the stories of people who flee their countries. No-one leaves their country of birth without a good reason. It’s a very brave thing to do – willing immigration is brave, but unwilling immigration is an act of desperation and a cry for help that we ignore at our moral and political peril.
What’s the solution Geoff? It’s simple. Accept them all (apart from the very few that ASIO deem as security risks or that the AFP identify as dangerous criminals) and process them in the community. Only the brave, industrious, and resolute become boat people … the cowardly, lazy, and vacillating stay at home or get killed. We should be welcoming these people! Plus, if they’re from Afghanistan or the like, they’re dry-climate farming experts! Exactly what rural Australia needs!
Spend 5 minutes trawling through the videos of murderous rampages committed in Indonesia and Malaysia and Thailand and the Phillipines against people not of their faith or culture or background, then tell me with a straight face these refugees would prefer it there or fit in better there! No wonder they can’t wait to get here, they can sleep at night not fearing anything worse than a few scowls or bad language from feral pricks at the shops. Verses getting dragged out into a village or city square and butchered by so called fellow Muslims, or fellow asians or whatever. They also get the opportunity to contribute by working and paying taxes for everyone’s benefit. Look at the success of the Shire of Leonora’s refugees in the community program, the town is thriving and it is 832 kilometres from Perth, the kids go to school, the women join in community activities and language lessons, the men (mostly teenagers not adult males) are given work skills opportunities and have by all accounts fitted in with all but a very few (namely the Ambulance Volunteer who made a tit of herself by refusing to attend if they got calls to the refugee accommodation), the local indigenous people enjoy the interaction and the positives outweigh the negatives. Remember they are but a small percentage of the global refugee flux, and an even smaller number are Muslim. But they are human, give them the chance and they will be just as “Australian” as you would hope for.
http://www.facebook.com/thatsnotnice?ref=ts&fref=ts you say it so much better than my little farcebook page. well done.
http://www.facebook.com/campbell.newman?fref=ts is the premier of Queensland farcebook page. Your page has been put up there asking if Queensland has hate crime legislation and if the threats of violence and murder qualify as hate crimes.
http://www.goldcoast.com.au/gold-coast-bulletin/contact-us.html this is the Gold Coast Bulletin page with their classified adverts highlighted by a pretty woman. Is she the same woman http://www.facebook.com/courtney.rosse who features in one of the hate posts? Admin if this is going too far – please delete. Gold coast bulletin is a Murdoch paper with unlimited legal funds.
Well spotted, well and truly pinged, wonder if the Murdoch empire will tolerate a person like this for long?
The real trouble with these dunderheads is that they NEVER acknowledge the fact that their own ancestors were either immigrants or refugees. There’s nothing to argue. Whatever they say is BOGUS despite their delusions and they are fucked in the head. END OF STORY.
So, let me get this straight… these bottom feeders are upset because they think refugees are taking their dole money? (as a dole bludger, I resent that victims of war are getting assistance because that money should be spent on propping up my useless arse.) Perhaps it’s all these unhappy welfare recipients that need to be loaded onto a boat and sunk, for the financial good of our nation? Oh really? You had to live in a shed? Maybe you should put the bottle down, pull the needle out of your arm, and get a fucking job, hmmm?
What, you don’t like people who have never met you, making assumptions about how you came to be in such a difficult situation? Maybe you should consider that before you go making claims about what other people in need should or shouldn’t be entitled to…
Well Netski, be careful about making assumptions, I have never stuck a needle in my arm, never been an alco either, I only received unemployment benefits for 2 years when genuinely looking for work (having been laid off in the midst of the GFC)and living in a regional area with a child and frankly found it impossible to find work, live off with the real cost of living, & without a car. In fact I was happy to get basic cleaning work even though I am a qualified management professional in the construction industry.
Aussies live in a highly taxed country and struggle (the average Aussie I am talking about) to pay rent and afford the basics. I agree we are collectively better off and yes we should help refugees etc., but why can we not get the basics right for those on the poverty line first, without making matters worse for the tax burdoned 67%(+/-) of the working population? I pay almost $500-/wk in tax from a good salary I have spent 27+ years working toward, and yet I earn only a fraction more than I did over 20 years ago, with more experience & another 4 qual’s – yet I pay probably 6 times the rent of that period and undoubtedly at least 4-5 times more for fuel, 8-10 times more for food and utilities min. Increased immigration in an uncontrollable way such as this is putting more pressure on housing (& infrastructure), which greedy landlords will take advantage of, (& the Gov’t will not spend money easily on infrastructure), more pressure on Charities, which already have reduced funding from Govt. in general and more pressure on jobs for those school leavers and persons not so experienced but needing work to mention the least.
Australia is one of the few countries intaking refugees as we do, and accomodating at great expense, so while you sit back and comment very severely about Aussies attitudes in this blog, I think it wise to consider that you also may not be able to afford rent (or the mortgage- if you are lucky enough to have one)- one day, on the salary you are on because the uncontrolled influx of immigrants in this manner is putting more and more pressure on (un-regulatable) land/house/rent pricings, more job competition for most casual or labourer positions and increased taxes & living costs (as I am sure will happen again & again) on those who do work as well. Is it sustainable? At this rate, definately NOT. That’s what I think pisses most of us off. The problems other countrymen face from wars created by religious factions from 100’s->1000’s of years of war/insurgency, etc., by the sheer fact that they were born there & believe as they do> well, is that really our problem or any other countries problem? No, not really, but we do help, >so to what extent, for how long?, to what end? In the current world financial landscape, ?> imbalanceable.
Yes we should look after ourselves and our countrymen first, it is a birthright, depite what you may say or think! After all, if we don’t, all this becomes a mute point, as we shall also put ourselves on the fiscal cliff due to our over-eagerness to assist all and sundry who appear on our shores & want to live here.
The best real solutions? well, Mindmadeup, Netski, Stormy, Tony M, Dave, Kabdoo, Mo, VJ and the rest of you brilliant phsycho analytical socialistic scholars? What are they!?? I would love to hear something constructive for once! Come on, give it your best shot!
Most, if not all, of your complaints have nothing to do with asylum seekers. For example:
“I pay almost $500-/wk in tax from a good salary I have spent 27+ years working toward, and yet I earn only a fraction more than I did over 20 years ago, with more experience & another 4 qual’s – yet I pay probably 6 times the rent of that period and undoubtedly at least 4-5 times more for fuel, 8-10 times more for food and utilities min”
Asylum seekers are not responsible for your tax rate, or for inflation. Incidentally, are you telling us that at the moment you are struggling to make ends meet?
“Increased immigration in an uncontrollable way such as this”
But it is controlled. That’s part of the problem. For each asylum seeker who arrives, one less refugee is picked up. When too many arrive, then then umber of visas sent out is reduced in another area (Such as family reunification).
Complain all you want about the unfair nature of havign all visas for refugees coming in one form, which no other country does, but it is controlled.
” is putting more pressure on housing (& infrastructure), which greedy landlords will take advantage of,”
But refugees tend to lvie together with family and friends, resulting in a smaller burden for housing than australian born residents who prefer to live with fewer numbers of people.
Incidentally, are you telling us that asylum seekers alone are causing the housing shortage-rather than student visas, skilled migrants, or the tendency for people to live in smaller groups now?
” (& the Gov’t will not spend money easily on infrastructure),”
So…the problem is the Government being reluctant to spend money on infrastructure? So why do you want to punish asylum seekers for this?
“more pressure on jobs for those school leavers and persons not so experienced but needing work to mention the least.”
I’m sorry, is there an endless supply of Australian born citizens who want to work as cleaners, factory workers, market packers, etc?
Whenever anyone complains about asylum seekers causing increased pressure for work for Australian citizens I think we need to remind them that any increased pressure is experienced by the migrant, not the Australian.
If you are born in Australia, speak English with an Australian or english accent, and look caucasian, there is no legal job you are going for that an asylum seeker at the same or lower level of experience can take from you. The australian knows how to apply, speaks the language, and is going to be around a while-the migrant can be lacking experience in all three of these things.
I say legal only because some cash in hand jobs would favoru migrants, only because the cash in hand jobs can pay a worker a lot less money, and an Australian would not put up with that.
But, hey, I could be wrong. Find me anyone person who has lost out to a job to an asylum seeker with the same, or lower levels of experience. Please do!
“Australia is one of the few countries intaking refugees as we do,”
Define few? Australia, according to this report, is actually 47th in the list of countries accepting refugees: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1294102/At-a-glance-Who-takes-the-most-asylum-claims
” and accomodating at great expense”
So you want to get rid of mandatory detention? Great-I totally approve. When you get rid of that, the cost for each asylum seeker drops about 10%.
“I think it wise to consider that you also may not be able to afford rent…yadda yadda yadda-they’ll take yer jerbs!”
Again, when has a migrant with the same level of skills taken a legal job from an Australian born citizen? Please please please, tell me of any case about this.
Unless you’re telling me that all migrants have more skills and experience than Australian born residents. But that’s just offensive!
“Is it sustainable? At this rate, definately NOT. That’s what I think pisses most of us off. ”
Which is why all anti-immigration parties want a blanket reduction of immigration, regardless of country of origin (Starting with oru greatest source of migrants- New Zealand and the UK)? Oh wait, they don’t-they only want to stop the non-white migrants . Funny that.
And just to be clear, are you justifying comments made against asylum seekers on this very page? The comments stating they should be killed is okay because some people are concerned about the long term economic prospects of Australia?
“well, is that really our problem or any other countries problem? No, not really,”
This is the Australian image of mateship ladies and gentlemen: “Not my problem!”
Let’s forget that the largest source of asylum seekers is currently Pakistan, all fleeing a strengthened Taliban that we chased out of Afghanistan and then allowed to grow in Pakistan, then return, strengthened to Afghanistan. But hey-not my responsibility, hey?
“Yes we should look after ourselves and our countrymen first”
Which we do. Very well, thankfully. We have medicare, Centrelink, various housing services, legal services, etc, who all see Australian citizens. Unless you’ve found Australians turned away from a charity due to asylum seekers? No?
“as we shall also put ourselves on the fiscal cliff due to our over-eagerness to assist all and sundry who appear on our shores & want to live here.”
Again, the myth of “It’s just people who want a better life”
Everyone who arrives on our shores applyign for asylum must be in fear for their life due to persecution based on their sexuality, political beliefs, religion, or culture. No one who just wants to “Be Australian” gets to stay here on that alone. Hell, even people who are in fear for their life, but don’t meet the definition of a refugee (Particularly women fleeing their husbands in countries where women have few rights), don’t get accepted as a refugee.
Incidentally, are you honestly telling us that Australia, with it’s very strong economy, is about to collapse because of asylum seekers, the numbers of which are smaller than most western countries, particularly Europe (I think it was Ch 10 who showed previously that the number of Asylum seekers arriving in Australia each year is equal to those arriving in Southern Europe in one week)?
“The best real solutions? well, Mindmadeup, Netski, Stormy, Tony M, Dave, Kabdoo, Mo, VJ and the rest of you brilliant phsycho analytical socialistic scholars? What are they!?”
Well, we don’t believe there’s a problem! You’re the one who says there’s a problem, so you please tell me your solution.
You’ve said that asylum seekers alone are causing a housing crisis. I disagree as asylum seekers tend to couch surf, live with famiyl or friends, etc, until they can afford to support themselves, reducing pressure on housing services.
You’ve said that asylum seekers are taking all the low skilled jobs, but I disagree, as asylum seekers have less knowledge of the employment landscape, less knowledge of how to apply, are less secure in their visa, tend to have worse english, and are less aware of acceptable payment levels, than Australians.
You’ve said that asylum seekers are going to cause our economy to collapse if they continue at current numbers. I disagree, as asylum seeker numbers are far larger in far poorer countries in Europe, and they haven’t resorted to half the drastic meaaures Australia has done.
In so much as I do believe Asylum seekers should be encouraged to move out of cities, and promtoe growth in regional areas, such as has already happened very succesfully in Shepparton-that I guess could be pass of a solution to resolve some issues, but you’re the one running around like chicken little screaming “The Sky is falling! The sky is falling! And I’m paying too much tax!” I really don’t see a crisis in accepting asylum seekers at a far lower level than most other western countries, considering our strong economy.
You evidently see that the world is about to end. I don’t. So how isi t fair that you want me to solve the problem that only you believe exists?
Sorry Tina, I almost forgot that you had posted previously, so I didn’t remember to remind you of all the points you ignored. Previouisly you stated asylum seekers in detention get payments more than a pensioner (They don’t get payments), that they get $10,000 once they’re provided with a visa (They don’t) and that asylum seekers are entitled to a range of services that you were never entitled to (You are entitled to more services, available in the community free of charge). You seem to not want to talk about them.
Anyway, now that your memory is refreshed, mind answering the quetions you ignored:
1. “JM and Randy, I agree on some points,”
Nice, gives us something to work from. What exactly did you agree with?
2. 5 star accomodation? Please, name me other five star hotels that are surrounded in razor wire.
3. Incidentally, the food is what we call in the University “slops”-food that requires little meat, a lot of sauce, and can be made to spread out to a large number of people. Essentially, it’s the multicultural version of a soup kitchen. How many 5 star restaurants that would serve such cheap food?
4. So….you want the UN to declare war on all countries where asylum seekers come from? You want an all powerful UN invading countries and overpowering their leaders?
5. So who are the asylum seekers who you think are non-genuine?
6. How exactly does an Afghani asylum seeker apply for protection? We don’t have an embassy in Afghanistan. Same in Iran. In other countries, such as Nigeria, where we do have embassies, they must wait 18 months for processing. Do you think the warlord who is trying to kill you will patiently wait 18 months for your application to be processed?
7. Incidentally-where do you send the boats back to? Most boats are coming from Indonesia-but Indonesia has refused to accept any returning boats. So, we either accept the boats, or leave them to drown at sea. (Or declare war with Indonesia by forcing asylum seeker boats into their ports).
Can you see why only one of these is a feasible option?
Also, I’ve noticed your two posts are contradictory. The first recommends:
““-1000 hours of community service (over 16′s)- carried out while in process stage ”
But now you say that taking low skilled jobs would lose jobs for early school leavers. You know what will especially reduce work load-having large numbers of people being forced to do low skilled jobs for free!
You also informed us that you have sources within a detention centre that are feeding you lies. Have you confronted your friends with the fact that they’ve been telling you lies, or did they never exist?
Incidentally I find it interesting you’re complaining about the tax you’re paying. Considerign if you were really living in a shed you would be appreciate that those same funds fund the housign support services that could have looked after you.
Wow. Sucks. People. 😦
Forgot the word “Ouch” in there as well.
Refugees. Breathing. Living. Loving. Warm. Greiving. Fearing. Hoping. Working Human.
With red blood. With hearts and minds and families.
There but for the grace of .. whatever .;. go I .. or you .. or anyone.
Shall we make them suffer? Cause them further agony and suffering?
Really? *Really* Really?
JM: …There are many trouble spots in the world today and millions of people are in fear of their lives, not only from wars but from famine and disease. Such people are genuine refugees and should be shown compassion and accorded as much help as possible by any nations that can assist.
On the other hand, the hordes of boatpeople attempting to illegally sneak into Australia are not refugees by any stretch of the imagination. A few may have been when they departed Afghanistan, Iraq, or any of the other trouble spots in the Middle East, however once they arrived in safe haven countries that allowed them entry and did not persecute them, then they should have either applied for residency in those safe havens or applied to the United Nations or the Australian consulate for legal immigration to Australia. However the truth is that the vast majority of them were not even being persecuted in their home countries in the first place and thus could not legally claim to be refugees by any stretch of imagination.
Are these people genuine refugees in fear of their lives or persecution at the time they approach Australian waters? If they have come from the Middle East or Asia via such countries as Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia and Australia was not their first port of call when they fled their homeland, then they are not refugees in the legal or moral sense, as these safe haven countries allowed them entry but were not persecuting or killing them.
If this is the case, these people should be denied entry into Australia. If they wish to immigrate to Australia, then they should go about it in a legal manner by applying to the Australian consulates in those safe haven countries and waiting their turn like all other prospective immigrants, instead of trying to jump the queue.
A predominant ploy used by illegal immigrants is to destroy their transit and identification documents prior to their arrival in Australian territorial waters. This makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to prove their nationality or whether they are in fact refugees. A very simple exercise in logic can be applied here. These people most definitely would have had to possess valid documents such as passports to gain entry into all the countries that they transited on their way to Australia, as in most cases these people had arrived by air into a number of heavily controlled international airports. Their passports would have contained visas and entry stamps, showing that these people had actually gained entry to those safe haven nations, thus negating their refugee status.
Upon arrival in Australian waters, if these people then cannot produce valid documents showing their identities and their routes from their countries of origin such as Afghanistan, Iraq or Pakistan, then it is obvious that they had deliberately destroyed such documents in an attempt to deceive Australian authorities, therefore they should be denied entry into Australia.
A damning Federal Government report the humanitarian settlement program in May 2011 revealed that four out of five so-called refugee households are relying on welfare and more than 60 per cent of those so-called refugees have failed to get a job after five years. A total of 83% of these households of alleged refugees now rely on welfare payments for income.
Not surprisingly, the greatest unemployment rate was recorded among new arrivals from Iraq and Afghanistan, with less than one in 10 able to find full time work and 93.7% of households receiving Centrelink payments. The statistics were contained in a Department of Immigration and Citizenship report.
Those not considered “employed” after five years, were unemployed, retired, studying full time, engaged in caring duties, doing voluntary work or trying to start a business for which they had yet to receive income. More than 60 per cent of those without jobs had a poor command of English.
The study of more than 8500 humanitarian entrants found that of those that came from Afghanistan or Iraq, about 93% relied on welfare payments including unemployment benefits, youth allowance, Austudy or the child care rebate.
This study merely highlights the utter stupidity of the Australian Labor Party’s policy of virtually encouraging these illegal immigrants to flout Australia’s laws and then become a massive burden on the nation, especially those boatpeople from Afghanistan and Iraq. The hard statistics show that nearly all of them are on welfare payments, can’t speak much English, which also makes them unemployable, but they proceed to set up house here and have many children, all funded by the Australian taxpayer.
Most of these illegal immigrant people arrive in Australian waters with no documentation such as passports, identity cards or any other papers that indicate who they are. There is no doubt that nearly all of them travel by air through a number of countries before reaching Indonesia and the people smugglers. So how did these people pass through so many international air and sea ports with immigration barriers and stay in some of these countries for lengthy periods of time, if they did not have passports and visas?
Figures obtained from the Department of Immigration and Citizenship revealed that more than 80% of the illegal immigrants arriving in Australia by boat threw away their passports before landing, presenting a security nightmare for ASIO and immigration authorities. 5213 people arriving illegally between 2008 and 2010 had first flown to Indonesia before boarding a boat to Australia.
But only 21 of those people still had passports with them by the time they were intercepted in Australian waters. And less than a quarter of them had any documentation at all, raising the danger that people who posed a security risk could slip through the net.
Source: http://www.hotheads.com.au/immigrants.htm
Further:
A HUGE hotel bill is being racked up by the Government to house 500 asylum seekers.
A Department of Immigration has admitted paying $60,000 a night in November last year to house up to 188 people, mainly families, a total bill of almost $800,000, for a fortnight’s accommodation at Darwin’s Airport Lodge.
The figures reveal that, based on the leases the Government had in place at the end of 2010, the average cost across motels, hotels and guest houses around the country was $2.36 million a month.
The Government had previously refused to reveal the true cost of its alternative accommodation policy to house families and unaccompanied minors outside detention camps – claiming the contracts with hotels were commercial-in-confidence.
During one 13 day period – from November 10 to November 23, 2010 – the cost of accommodation at the Darwin Airport Lodge was $778,000, including GST.
The cost of flights to and from Christmas Island to bring detainees to the mainland also topped $12 million last year, for an average of $145,000 per charter for 83 flights.
Only last week the Government revealed it would need an extra $290 million this year to cover the rising costs.
“They have a financial crisis on asylum seekers of their own making,” Opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison said.
“This is a government paying five-star rates for roadside motel accommodation.”
According to the documents, as at October 2010 there were eight motels, hotels or commercial accommodations housing a total of 461 asylum seekers, who the department refer to as irregular maritime arrivals or IMAs.
Refugee advocates claim that the perception that IMAs were enjoying a luxurious life by being housed in motels was ridiculous when some of the accommodation was no grander than a demountable camp. The majority of those in motels were families who were forced to live in small rooms with children for periods of up to six months with no cooking facilities.
The number of asylum seekers arriving by boat from war-torn regions abroad is at a record high, now totalling 6200.
A spokesman for Immigration Minister Chris Bowen defended the cost of alternative accommodation, which was a humanitarian obligation to ensure families and children did not have to experience high security detention centres. “Immigration detention is expensive – whether it’s onshore or offshore,” the spokesman said.
The continuing flow of illegal immigrants, or asylum seekers, to Australia and the enormous and growing cost of handling them is a problem for taxpayers created by the Gillard Government itself.
They are immigrants because they want to live in Australia and illegal because they have not applied to do so through the normal application procedure. Normally, anyone reaching Australian territory without formal approval is arrested, charged, prosecuted and usually deported.
The Federal Government has made the cardinal mistake of sanctioning a major breach of Australian law by allowing not just one but many people to enter Australian territory without going through the normal entry process.
The usual image of a refugee is a person fleeing from a homeland where they fear death, torture or persecution for no valid reason and only have the clothes on their back.
The illegal immigrants reaching Australian territory have reportedly paid thousands of dollars to the boat operators after paying even more money to reach the embarkation ports.
Australia has many official representatives around the world and the normal procedure for people seeking asylum is to apply to a relevant agency to seek refugee status. Refugees are then admitted to various countries according to quotas. The worldwide estimate of people wishing to flee their countries as refugees is put at 60 million.
Contrary to the entry procedures of all other countries, the Gillard Government has effectively put out the welcome mat to any person who can reach our territory without permission, or illegally.
It is pretty obvious that the word has spread that such people will be fed, housed, given health care and welfare payments on arrival. Because Christmas Island is now full, the illegal immigrants are now being brought straight into Australia, assisted by the government to achieve their objective.
There are now more than 6000 illegal immigrants who have reached Australia by just being brought here and it is understood the Gillard Government is trying to find a solution to a problem of its own making because of the mounting cost.
The government says what it is doing is for humanitarian reasons and to comply with United Nations’ directives on refugees but it has extended an open invitation to anyone who can get here illegally and this message would have spread like wildfire.
And this:
Running detention centres $712 Mil PA – June 2011
Immigration Residential Housing and Immigration Transit $44Mil PA
Global education provider Navitas English, which has signed $460million in contracts with DIAC, and the NSW Adult Migrant English Service, part of the NSW Department of Education and Training, which has signed $347million in contracts since 2008.
Information technology services provider IBM has entered into or varied hundreds of contracts worth a combined $312million.
Another big winner is International Health and Medical Services, which has contracts worth $293million to provide services for Christmas Island and mainland detention centres. (these are PA costs just to mention a few)
Un-recorded but known costs are also:
Legal Aid
Border Security costs (for the free pick-ups near Indo…)
In June 2012, 6403 people were being held in immigration detention
After, 1882 people were transferred into community-based detention, and this number also rises monthly.
A Herald Sun investigation has found that nearly 60,000 people – one in every 390 – is in the country unlawfully
read more: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/taxpayers-wear-burden-of-60000-illegal-immigrants/story-fn7x8me2-1226200621996
And with sites like this, it’s not hard to see why people also to illegally overstay:
How to Immigrate:
http://www.how2immigrate.net/cost-of-living.html
Interesting reading…….
PS
& no I dont live in a half open shed any more thank God!, I managed to get temporary emergency accom., after 2 weeks, until able to find work in Sydney. And yes I do work full time, as I have done most of my adult life, (when there were jobs, or if opportunities arose to make a business I did so also) contributing to the tax income of Australia that pays for this crap….. amongst other more noble pursuits.
Admin, sit down, this is going to be a long one. Presenting, the mainly conflictign and contradictory beleifs of Tina!
“There are many trouble spots in the world today and millions of people are in fear of their lives, not only from wars but from famine and disease. Such people are genuine refugees and should be shown compassion and accorded as much help as possible by any nations that can assist. ”
So, you actually want to bring in more people (Famine and disease are not reasons to seek asylum).
“On the other hand, the hordes of boatpeople attempting to illegally sneak into Australia are not refugees by any stretch of the imagination. ”
It’s not illegal to seek asylum. It never has been. And it’s hardly hordes-we get a tiny proportion of the numbers that Europe gets, and we are a much larger and economically stronger country.
“A few may have been when they departed Afghanistan, Iraq, or any of the other trouble spots in the Middle East, however once they arrived in safe haven countries that allowed them entry and did not persecute them, then they should have either applied for residency in those safe havens or applied to the United Nations or the Australian consulate for legal immigration to Australia.”
Which countries? Which countries can an Afghani asylum seeker flee to, and live safely? Everyoen tells me there’s these coutnries out there, but no one, not a single person can name them.
” However the truth is that the vast majority of them were not even being persecuted in their home countries in the first place and thus could not legally claim to be refugees by any stretch of imagination.”
Source for this bullshit? Come one-any source. Because you are apparently telling us that Australian asylum seeker processing apparently accepts everyone, withotu any evidence. But if this is the case, why are so many people turned away? Why are people rejected at any stage of asylum seeker processing if they can peddle false stories with no evidence?
“If they have come from the Middle East or Asia via such countries as Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia and Australia was not their first port of call when they fled their homeland, then they are not refugees in the legal or moral sense, as these safe haven countries allowed them entry but were not persecuting or killing them.”
Pakistan and Sri Lanka are safe countries now? Even thoguh Sri Lanka is still dealing with the after effects of a decades long civil war. And Pakistan currently being occupied in a great proportion by the Taliban. Okay, you think they’re so safe, you move there, Tina. Have a holiday in the border regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan-see how much safe you’ll feel!
Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore are not signatories to the Refugee charter. This means that a person cannot apply for residency, cannot work, can can be arrested at any time by a corrupt police officer if they don’t have the right papers on them at any point. So you tell me, Tina, how would you live and settle in a country where you could not work, and could be arrested and deported at any time. Tell me, I want to know!
“If they wish to immigrate to Australia, then they should go about it in a legal manner by applying to the Australian consulates in those safe haven countries and waiting their turn like all other prospective immigrants, instead of trying to jump the queue.”
Ah yes, the mythical queue. Please tell me Tina, when you went for your job, did you ask all other prospective applicants if they needed the job more than you? When you started renting a house, did you ensure there was no one else who needed the house more than you?
No, you didn’t. You did what was best for you, and didn’t consider what other people may need. You jumped ahead of them-you took a place that they could have taken. And the queue that you were in in this case is just as mythical as the refugee queue.
And this isn’t wrong. This is normal and healthy to consider the needs of yourself and your famiyl first. However, it’s not fair to then condemn asylum seekers coming by boats (And it is only this group that gets condemned, not those arriving by plane who have a far lower acceptance rate) for not considering the needs of the population of the world above their own, when you want to consider the needs of a handfull of people who went for jobs you went for.
You want to get on a moral high horse, then let’s stop you being a hypocrite. Tell em, exactly what you woudl do if you were fleeing Afghanistan. Would you wait for a refugee place to run up while you stay in Pakistan, hoping the Taliban don’t kill you this week? Or would you go to a coutnry where you knew you and your family would be starving? Or would you take the opportunity you could and flee with your daughter?
Incidentally, if yo want Australia to take more people from refugee camps then I totally agree. Then you would probabyl join me in saying Australia should separate its intake of offshore and on shore refugees, considering we are the only country who does this, and we have a much lower asylum seeker intake than any other coutnry. We do this and the asylum seeker itnake would no effect the refugee intake-it’s win win.
” A predominant ploy used by illegal immigrants is to destroy their transit and identification documents prior to their arrival in Australian territorial waters. This makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to prove their nationality or whether they are in fact refugees.”
And you think people are just given the benefit of the doubt in detention centres? I repeat, if the epartment of Immigration and the UN will accept refugees on their word alone, why is anyone ever rejected?
The truth is all asylum seekers are very closely assessed. Their testimony is compared with what our embassies and allies overseas report. Family members are attempted to be contacted, evidence sought, and based on this a decision is made.
” Their passports would have contained visas and entry stamps, showing that these people had actually gained entry to those safe haven nations, thus negating their refugee status.”
Again with your alleged safe haven resorts. Go lvie in one of your “safe havens”-live in there for twnety years or mroe, without the right to work. Tell me how “safe” you feel.
” Upon arrival in Australian waters, if these people then cannot produce valid documents showing their identities and their routes from their countries of origin such as Afghanistan, Iraq or Pakistan, then it is obvious that they had deliberately destroyed such documents in an attempt to deceive Australian authorities, therefore they should be denied entry into Australia.”
Or, y’know, the people smugglers do it. Let’s compare theories:
Your theory is that asylum seekers destroy identity documents to prove they didn’t stop in a safe haven country, even though safe haven countries don’t exist (Unless you found a truly lost asylum seeker who travelled via Canada).
My theory is that people smugglers, knowing that they could be caught and arrested, especialyl if the boat sinks and everyone dies, destroy the documents so it will be harder for someone to be linked back to them.
So…theory oen is based on a falsity. Theory two is based on the fact that criminals tend not to want to get caught. How’s the logic standing up, Tina?
” A damning Federal Government report the humanitarian settlement program in May 2011 revealed that four out of five so-called refugee households are relying on welfare and more than 60 per cent of those so-called refugees have failed to get a job after five years. A total of 83% of these households of alleged refugees now rely on welfare payments for income. ”
You’ve posted the entire article, but here’s the funny thing. You didn’t actually read it, did you? We’ll get to that later, but just think about this, when people spend years in prison, after experiencing trauma, they don’t come out very work ready. Tell you what-you go to a brand new coutnry you’ve never been to before, spend 1-2 years behind bars, and then try to find yourself a job afterwards. Better yet-try it in a country where you don’t speak the language. It’s no surprise that the majority of people who had difficulties were for IRaq and Afghanistan, the same people who would have spent years in detention, leading to sever mental disabilities, and often are refused english classes when released-just because they arrived on a boat.
I used to work for an organisation that helped out asylum seekers-got them english classes, and helped them prepare for work. And you know the amazing thing-they got jobs! Imagine if the Government took that report and decided to start solving the problems refugees face when they integrate, instead of people like you jsutu sing this article to state: “All refugees are bad-even though I’ve said the ones I work with are fine” No, that would be too hard, wouldn’t it?
And you probably didn’t read it in the report, but here’s something else the repor stated: The remainder were unemployed, retired, studying full time, engaged in caring duties, doing voluntary work or trying to start a business from which they had yet to receive income.More than 60 per cent of those people without jobs had a poor command of English.
So…so much for people slacking off and not doing work. Some are retired, some are studying, some are caring for family members, startign a business. And those without jobs, in the majority can’t speak English.
So, with this being a big problem-surely you’d join me in, insteado f calling people so called refugees”-encouraging further english study, maybe startign a conversation class of your own. Lack of English is clearly a big barrier to employment-so why don’t you help resolve it.
“This study merely highlights the utter stupidity of the Australian Labor Party’s policy”
Wait wait wait wait wait. Labor party policy? You didn’t read the article, did you? It was made in 2011, and based on asylum seekers who had been in Australia for more than 5 years. Now, who was Prime Minister in 2006. I think you know the answer.
Yes, these shocking statistics came about due to the harsh policies of the Howard Government. The tiem of extended mandatory detention, frequent suicide attempts, TPV’s and no English education. And you’re surprised with a grand total of 0 support from the govenremtn to help a person integrate into Australian society, they couldn’t find work? You get surprised easily, don’t you.
“The hard statistics show that nearly all of them are on welfare payments, can’t speak much English, which also makes them unemployable, but they proceed to set up house here and have many children, all funded by the Australian taxpayer.”
Ah, they’re going to breed us out of existence now, are they?
Again, you condemn their lakc of English. How exactly is a newly arrived refugee going to learn English when the policies of the then government removed their English language courses?
“So how did these people pass through so many international air and sea ports with immigration barriers and stay in some of these countries for lengthy periods of time, if they did not have passports and visas? ”
See above comments about passports. But no, please continue your theory that asylum seekers throw away their passports so that the government doesn’t know they stayed in another country they couldn’t live in, even thoguh they often tell the government this, and wouldn’t actually rule them out from seeking asylum.
“Further:
A HUGE hotel bill is being racked up by the Government to house 500 asylum seekers.
A Department of Immigration has admitted paying $60,000 a night in November last year to house up to 188 people, mainly families, a total bill of almost $800,000, for a fortnight’s accommodation at Darwin’s Airport Lodge.”
So, now you’re complaining that the Australian government is supporting local Australian businesses?
Well, to be fair, I agree with you. Let’s get them out of detention, even community detention. It would be cheaper for all of us. But finily enough, I don’t think that’s what you’re calling for, is it? Why not?
Am I going to be lucky enough to hear the false dichotomy of: “Detention is too expensive, but we can’t let them out, even thoguh every other coutnry does”?
“They are immigrants because they want to live in Australia and illegal because they have not applied to do so through the normal application procedure. Normally, anyone reaching Australian territory without formal approval is arrested, charged, prosecuted and usually deported.”
Not if they seek aslyum. It has never been illegal to seek asylum in Australia since the Refugee Convention was signed in the 50’s.
” The Federal Government has made the cardinal mistake of sanctioning a major breach of Australian law by allowing not just one but many people to enter Australian territory without going through the normal entry process.”
Wait, you’re complaining about the government signing the refugee charter in 1951? You’re telling me Robert Menzies has ruined Australia?
” The usual image of a refugee is a person fleeing from a homeland where they fear death, torture or persecution for no valid reason and only have the clothes on their back.
The illegal immigrants reaching Australian territory have reportedly paid thousands of dollars to the boat operators after paying even more money to reach the embarkation ports.”
So, if you have money and you use that to flee a country, you can’t be a refugee? Even if you spent every last cent on fleeing the country, you’re still not a refugee?
So, Jews who fled Nazi Germany, according to you, are not actually refugees, and should have been sent back to Germany?
” Australia has many official representatives around the world and the normal procedure for people seeking asylum is to apply to a relevant agency to seek refugee status. ”
Again, Afghanistan doesn;t have that. IRaq and IRan don’t have that. In toher countries the waiting times are too logn to live safely.
I repeat-what would you do if you were an Afghani asylum seeker? Put yourself in their shoes-would you do whatever it could to save the life of your yourself and your children, or would you wait, and hope not to starve to death or be deported?
” Contrary to the entry procedures of all other countries, the Gillard Government has effectively put out the welcome mat to any person who can reach our territory without permission, or illegally.”
Really? No other coutnry accepts asylum seekers now? Not a single one?
Well don’tr wait around, you better go and tell America-they’ve had the largest number of asylum seeker acceptances (Not refugees-but asylum seekerS) for many years, England, Canada and Denmark. They’ve been living in the mistaken notion that they accepted tens of thousands of asylum seekers in 2011:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/asylum-seekers-what-other-countries-do-20120813-244fs.html
” It is pretty obvious that the word has spread that such people will be fed, housed, given health care and welfare payments on arrival.”
But they’re not. They are not given any welfare in detention, and once they are released from detention they need to find their own housing, food, and receive less welfare than any other Australan (if they receive any at all-detainees receive fudning for 6 motnhs only-to be assessed following this, and lose ti if they are rejected twice).
” Because Christmas Island is now full, the illegal immigrants are now being brought straight into Australia, assisted by the government to achieve their objective.”
And by living in the community you aren ot paying for their housing, food, bills, etc. You aren’t paying for any of this! So why aren’t you happy about this?
“And this:
Running detention centres $712 Mil PA – June 2011
Immigration Residential Housing and Immigration Transit $44Mil PA”
So…you want to end detention too? Come on, you’ve brought up all the problems associated with detention-so jsut say the conclusion-No more mandatory dentention!
” Global education provider Navitas English, which has signed $460million in contracts with DIAC, and the NSW Adult Migrant English Service, part of the NSW Department of Education and Training, which has signed $347million in contracts since 2008.”
Wait…you want to stop people learnign English? But you just said that if they didn’t have English they’d be unemployable!
Or are you actually telling me that you want asylum seekers to learn English while they’re fleeing for their life, or somehow just pick it up without any training?
“Information technology services provider IBM has entered into or varied hundreds of contracts worth a combined $312million.
Another big winner is International Health and Medical Services, which has contracts worth $293million to provide services for Christmas Island and mainland detention centres. (these are PA costs just to mention a few)”
so again, you’re joining me in callign for an end to detention (Meaning no computers in detention, and no health checks in detention centres)? You want to join us for the next rally calling to end detention?
” Un-recorded but known costs are also:
Legal Aid
Border Security costs (for the free pick-ups near Indo…)”
Legal aid is actually funded for all people, as I have told you. But please, go ahead and tell me that a service that you once mistakenly complained that you didn’t have access to you now think is being funded too much.
“In June 2012, 6403 people were being held in immigration detention
After, 1882 people were transferred into community-based detention, and this number also rises monthly.”
Why even mention this? You’re jsut copying and pasting random things and hoping people notice.
As I’ve repeatedly mentioned, mandatory detention destroys people. Community detention, while not the best, is better than mandatory detention. If you want to end detention, just say the word and we’ll set up a rally.
“A Herald Sun investigation has found that nearly 60,000 people – one in every 390 – is in the country unlawfully”
Tee-hee. You didn’t read the article! You don’t read things, do you? Just go for the headlines, and hope the rest of the story matches it.
Well, as I did read the article, here’s what it says in the second and third paragraphs:
And they dwarf the 4700 asylum seekers who arrived by boat in 2010-11.
Documents released to the Herald Sun under Freedom of Information also reveal the biggest groups of illegals are Chinese, Americans, Malaysians, Britons and South Koreans.
So….we don’t have a problem with asylum seekers at all. In fact, the number of asylum seekers who arrive here is tiny compared to the far greater nubmer of illegal immigrants from China, America, Britain, south Korea and Malaysia.
So…you’ve just provided evidence to support my own argument. There is no problem. Thanks for that!
“And with sites like this, it’s not hard to see why people also to illegally overstay:
How to Immigrate:
http://www.how2immigrate.net/cost-of-living.html”
Wait, you’re complaining that a website is telling people how to migrate legally now? You really don’t know what you believe, do you?
“Interesting reading…….”
If you had bothered to read it, it would have been.
So, after that thesis, what is it that Tina wants, ladies and gentleman. Well it seems she’s worried about the cost of detention, yet for some reason doesn’t want to call for the end of it. She wants to support true refugees, who are all, withotu fail, poor (rich people are not able to be refugees), able to stay in safe havens (that don’t exist) and somehow live on air, becauset hey don’t have the right to work.
She wants asylum seekers to work, and wants them to learn english, but wants them in detention, where they will become mentally damaged, and doesn’t want them to have access to English classes.
She says that asylum seekers are flooding in our country, but even her own article says the number is tiny compared to visa overstayers (The true illegal immigrant).
She wants people to come “legally” but objects to website showing people how to apply legally.
She wants onyl true refugees to come to Australia, but then includes people who are sick or starving, which aren’t actually refugees, but not people fleeing their lives, who are.
I’m not saying she doesn’t know her arse from her elbow, but I am saying she is confused.
And despite all that, she didnt’ respond to any question! Here we go again:
1. “JM and Randy, I agree on some points,”
Nice, gives us something to work from. What exactly did you agree with?
2. 5 star accomodation? Please, name me other five star hotels that are surrounded in razor wire.
3. Incidentally, the food is what we call in the University “slops”-food that requires little meat, a lot of sauce, and can be made to spread out to a large number of people. Essentially, it’s the multicultural version of a soup kitchen. How many 5 star restaurants that would serve such cheap food?
4. So….you want the UN to declare war on all countries where asylum seekers come from? You want an all powerful UN invading countries and overpowering their leaders?
5. How exactly does an Afghani asylum seeker apply for protection? We don’t have an embassy in Afghanistan. Same in Iran. In other countries, such as Nigeria, where we do have embassies, they must wait 18 months for processing. Do you think the warlord who is trying to kill you will patiently wait 18 months for your application to be processed?
6. Incidentally-where do you send the boats back to? Most boats are coming from Indonesia-but Indonesia has refused to accept any returning boats. So, we either accept the boats, or leave them to drown at sea. (Or declare war with Indonesia by forcing asylum seeker boats into their ports).
Can you see why only one of these is a feasible option?
7. Also, I’ve noticed your two posts are contradictory. The first recommends:
““-1000 hours of community service (over 16′s)- carried out while in process stage ”
But now you say that taking low skilled jobs would lose jobs for early school leavers. You know what will especially reduce work load-having large numbers of people being forced to do low skilled jobs for free!
8. You also informed us that you have sources within a detention centre that are feeding you lies. Have you confronted your friends with the fact that they’ve been telling you lies, or did they never exist?
9. Incidentally, are you telling us that asylum seekers alone are causing the housing shortage-rather than student visas, skilled migrants, or the tendency for people to live in smaller groups now?
10. So…the problem is the Government being reluctant to spend money on infrastructure? So why do you want to punish asylum seekers for this?
11. I’m sorry, is there an endless supply of Australian born citizens who want to work as cleaners, factory workers, market packers, etc?
12. Find me anyone person who has lost out to a job to an asylum seeker with the same, or lower levels of experience. Please do!
13. And just to be clear, are you justifying comments made against asylum seekers on this very page? The comments stating they should be killed is okay because some people are concerned about the long term economic prospects of Australia?
14. We have medicare, Centrelink, various housing services, legal services, etc, who all see Australian citizens. Unless you’ve found Australians turned away from a charity due to asylum seekers? No?
15. Incidentally, are you honestly telling us that Australia, with it’s very strong economy, is about to collapse because of asylum seekers, the numbers of which are smaller than most western countries, particularly Europe (I think it was Ch 10 who showed previously that the number of Asylum seekers arriving in Australia each year is equal to those arriving in Southern Europe in one week)?
Ummmm…I didn’t hear anything RACIST at all! They are against ILLEGAL immigration. I don’t agree with the way they aired their sentiments, but to call them racist is ignorant!!
Asylum seekers are NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS (for the millionth time)
Anyone is entitled by international law to seek asylum in any country.
They have shown their ignorance by calling asylum seekers illegal immigrants.
I used to think like those idiots. Not bombings or kill them, but that “send them back” mentality. Which I realize would probably kill them.
That was when I was religious. I thought I was very liberal, (not right wing like our liberal party).
Thankfully I have become smarter and see what’s going on around me. I am not biased from personal experience, and realize that the media hype up stories completely.
Isnt about time you people realize that the country they came from is not in ruin nor are they in danger,the reason they come is because of what we give them,and every single asylum seeker that is processed takes a home and employment from Australians,open your eye’s and have a good look at what’s going on..send them back from wherever they are from the country can’t suport the current population both economicaly and environmentaly… I’m not racist but enough is enough…as for bagging and naming people from a facebook page i would have thought that was invasion of privacy and you could be liable for it…
Isnt about time you people realize that the country they came from is not in ruin
Which one? There are several countries from which refugees and asylum seekers originate.
every single asylum seeker that is processed takes a home and employment from Australians
Utter rubbish. Where’s your proof?
I’m not racist but…
Oh yes you are
…bagging and naming people from a facebook page i would have thought that was invasion of privacy and you could be liable for it
Well I notice that the ABC’s Jonathan Holmes, who does much the same thing as we do with all the media, hasn’t been “liable” for anything. Nor have any journalists who have reported on the rabble that infest social media, particularly Facebook.
You’d better learn some law, particularly that pertaining to racial discrimination, defamation and the use of a carriage service.
“Isnt about time you people realize that the country they came from is not in ruin nor are they in danger,”
Okay, so according to you Pakistan (The main source of asylum seekers to Australia), Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan (The main source of Asylum seekers on boats), are not dangerous places to be? You’re telling us that these are actually safe countries, with no isses at all.
Tell you what. I’ll believe you when you go holiday in these countries.
Incidentally, if an asylum seeker can be accepted in Australia without any danger in thier home country, why is anyone rejected at all? Because I know plenty of Asylum seekers who have been rejected, some more than once, but you’re seemingly telling me that all they had to do is say “I’m in danger”- and they’d be believed without a second’s doubt.
“and every single asylum seeker that is processed takes a home and employment from Australians,”
This is false. But I’m sure you’re not aware of this. In terms of housing-no asylum seeker is given a house. Some chairities can offer them a room, just as many charities can offer other Australians a room, and after they become permanent residents they can apply for public housing and go on the wait list (Like everyone else), but no one is “given” a house.
In terms of employment-are you telling me you don’t want refugees to get jobs? You’d prefer them to be on welfare? Regarding whether or not they’re “taking” jobs from Australians, please tell me any time when a recently arrived migrant, with the same levels of skills and experience as an Australian candidate, was able to get a job above an Australian candidate? I don’t knwo of any-migrants in general have to deal with the language barrier, getting qualifications rcognised in Australia, learning how to apply for jobs in Australia, understanding Australian culture, developing good interview technique, and anoverwhelming bias by employers towards people with simple visas (PV or citizenship only)-none of which an Australian citizen would need to deal with.
“send them back from wherever they are from the country can’t suport the current population both economicaly and environmentaly… ”
So send them back to the place they are fleeing from? Again, if it’s so safe, go have a holiday with the Taliban and tell me how safe it is.
Australia once said the exact same thing as you, in the 1930’s, to Jews fleeing Europe. We were wrong then, as we found out later. Are you happy to admit fault if you later find out that (shock horror) Afghanistan is actually a very dangerous place to be, and many people are in danger of their life there?
Incidentally, most refugees and asylum seekers are hosted by developing countires (Pakistan again, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc). Are you telling us that Australia can’t support the small number of asylum seekers because our economy is weaker than Indonesia, Malaysia and Pakistan, which do support a far greater number of asylum seekers?
“I’m not racist but”
How do you know you’re not racist? On what basis have you found yourself to be not racist?
“as for bagging and naming people from a facebook page i would have thought that was invasion of privacy and you could be liable for it…”
And you’d be wrong. If a person states a view publically, it cannot then become private. If you shouted these things in the middle of the city-you cannot then complain if someone repeat what you said elsewhere.
And incidentally, ignoring the legality of it, what’s the problem with reposting this stuff? If someone is proud of the comments they made, surely they’d be happy for those comments to get a wider audience? If they’re ashamed ofthose comments, maybe they should ask themselves whether they should have made the comments in the first place?
“Meanwhile In Australia” is the greatest Australian Facebook page fuck all the rest!!! https://www.facebook.com/MeanwhileInAustralia
Yeah and this has what to do with our post?
I love Australia and if there was anywhere else in the world i could live it would be there.I’m in the US and we have the problem with Mexicans crossing the border . I don’t have a problem with people trying to better themselves or trying to find a better life, but they need to try to do it legally unless they are in danger. Our biggest problem here is our government lets them get by with getting in then sends our work to Mexico. I can’t really offer an opinion on whats going on there with the refugees because I don’t live there. I see valid points on both sides ,but not the killing thing ,have to draw a line somewhere or else we are worse than animals………
Of course your government has had no problem with over a million undocumented arrivals coming over the border. More fodder for your shonky employers to exploit. They can pay these people far less than they would need to pay locals and work them harder.
Obama is trying to fix the problem and to give illegal immigrants residency status so they can get a fair deal and their kids can get access to education and health benefits (such as they are in the US).
I think the key difference is that you have over a million people crossing the border, we have at most a few hundred at year.
Well some of Australlian citizens of today are those who ran away from South Africa in ’94 as they wouldn’t wanna integrate with “die bantu” so this doesn’t shock some of us at all.