Conflating the Issue – Muslims Behaving Badly

WHERE do I start? Perhaps with the viral image that will come to define this episode: a child who’d be three or four hoisting a sign triumphantly above his head blaring ”Behead all those who insult the Prophet” while a woman, presumably his mother, thinks this is cute enough to capture on her smartphone. Alternatively, I could begin with the observation that the trailer for the anti-Islamic film that ostensibly started this all, Innocence of Muslims, is now a blockbuster, with YouTube hits in the millions thanks largely to the protesters around the world who think nobody should see it.

No. Let’s start with the fact that so few of the protesters who descended on Sydney’s CBD this weekend seem actually to have seen the film that so gravely offends them. When asked by journalists, they bluntly admit this, one even adding that she refuses to watch something so offensive. It’s almost impressive how cyclical this stupidity is. But it’s also instructive. In fact, this is the key to making sense of something so gobsmackingly senseless. The protesters – at least the ones quoted in news reports – know nothing except how offended they are.

That, you see, is all that matters. This isn’t about a film. It’s about an excuse. We know because we’ve seen it all before, like when Pakistani protesters vandalised American fast food outlets and burnt effigies of President George W. Bush in response to the Danish cartoons.

We know because so much of the weekend’s ranting was nakedly gratuitous: ”Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell”. Pardon? Which dead? Weren’t we talking about a movie?
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This is the behaviour of a drunkenly humiliated people: swinging wildly with the hope of landing a blow, any blow, somewhere, anywhere. There’s nothing strategic or calculated about this. It doesn’t matter that they are the film’s most effective publicists. It doesn’t matter that they protest using offensive slogans and signs, while protesting against people’s right to offend. It doesn’t matter that they object to insulting people on the basis of their religion, while declaring that Christians have no morals. This is baffling only until you realise these protesters are not truly protesting to make a point. The protest is the point.

It feels good. It feels powerful. This is why people yell pointlessly or punch walls when frustrated. It’s not instrumental. It doesn’t achieve anything directly. But it is catharsis. Outrage and aggression is an intoxicating prospect for the powerless.

Accordingly, it is not an option to leave an insult unanswered because that is a sign of weakness, rather than transcendence.

The irony is that it grants an extraordinary level of power to those doing the offending. It puts them constantly at the centre of your world. That’s why, when Gallup polled 35 Muslim majority countries, it found that of all the gripes the Muslim world has against the West, among the most pervasive is the West’s ”disrespect for Islam”.

And it is this disrespect that is the overarching grievance that subsumes others. Everything, global and local, can be thrown into this vortex: Swiss minaret bans, French niqab bans, military invasions, drone strikes, racist stereotyping, anti-immigrant politics, and yes, even films so ridiculously bad that, left to their own devices, they would simply lampoon themselves.

This is what gives Innocence of Muslims meaning: not its content, but its context. It’s a symbol of contempt, which is why protests against it so quickly turn into an orgy of anti-Americanism. So, ”Obama, Obama, we love Osama” they scream, mainly because it’s the most offensive rhyme they can muster. Osama, too, is a symbol; the most repugnant one in their arsenal. How better to prove you exist than to say something outrageous?

That the Obama administration immediately condemned the film in the strongest terms doesn’t register. Nor that the White House took the extraordinary (and ultimately unsuccessful) step of asking Google to pull the video. This is invisible to an audience of humiliated souls waiting desperately to be offended and conflate every grievance. Indeed, they need the offence. It gives them the chance to assert themselves so they can feel whole, righteous even. It’s a shortcut to self-worth.

The trouble is that in our digital world, there is always something to oblige. Anyone can Google their prejudices, and there is always enraging news to share with others. Entire online communities gather around the sharing of offensive material and subsequent communal venting. Soon you have a subculture: a sub-community whose very cohesion is based almost exclusively on shared grievance. Then you have an identity that has nothing to say about itself; an identity that holds an entirely impoverished position: that to be defiantly angry is to be.

Frankly, Muslims should find that prospect nothing short of catastrophic. It renders Islamic identity entirely hollow. All pride, all opposition, no substance. ”Like the Incredible Hulk,” observes Abdal Hakim Murad, a prominent British Islamic scholar, ”ineffectual until provoked.”

Sometimes you need a scandal to demonstrate an underlying disease. And that’s the good news here. The vast bulk of Saturday’s protesters were peaceful, and Muslim community organisations are lining up to condemn the outbreak of violence. But now a more serious conversation is necessary. One that’s not about how we should be speaking out to defend our prophet and ourselves. One that’s more about whether we can speak about anything else.

Waleed Aly hosts the Drive program on ABC Radio National and is a lecturer in politics at Monash University.

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22 thoughts on “Conflating the Issue – Muslims Behaving Badly

  1. Waleed its also humiliating for a non Muslim to have his nation state and foreign policy hijacked by a timy minority hell bent on starting ww 3.

    none of this is accidental, it was funded and planned in feb 2012 by an international network surrounding pamela geller. and other Israeli interests, dont believm,e study the links on their own websites.

    cannonfire blows it wide open

    http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

    and here

    http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/a-curious-connection/0019357

    • Your second source makes clear the makers of the movie are anti-semitic. There is a stronger evangelical and coptic link than there is a Jewish link-and the makers publically scapegoated the Jews for this. And if Pam gellar is your closest link to a Jewish conspiracy-well Gellar may be Jewish but sh’es a bigger anti-Islam than she is Jewish. She doesn’t hate Muslims “for” Israel, she hates them to hate-most of her activities centre around America.

      Why would the production publically go out to say the film was funded by Jews (They didn’t have to say anything), knowing where the backlash would be targetted, if they themselves were Jews? As BOTH your articles state that lines made about Jewish involvement in the movie were lies in some way, why would they lie about one aspect of their source, but be honest, according to you, to the aspect that would risk themselves backlash.

      Anyone who has studied the history of anti-semitism, the talk of blood libels, the protocols of the Elders of Zion, or plague slander, would recognise the stateent of “Funded by 100 Jewish backers” as what it was-a coward attacking one religion then scapegoating another so he wouldn’t risk a backlash.

  2. A lot of working class Anglo-Celtic Australians have felt disenfranchised and threatened by multiculturalism and the impact it has on their local communities. When they lash out violently lash out in response to the frustrations they feel, they are labeled as racists bigots and their actions are rightfully condemned. Why should these protesters be treated any different just because they are Islamic? How can Australia ever be a truly equal society if we keep treating people differently based on race, ethnicity and religion. There is no excuse for such actions ever and by showing sympathy to it, Waleed Aly and the Antibogan have demonstrated their both their bias and their lack of credibility as politcal extremists. Lift your game, guys. If you really cared about anti-discrimination and weren’t just another sensationalist far-left, “crucify old whitey” page you would never post such rubbish that does in fact discriminate. And this is coming from an Australian that is neither Anglo or Muslim but of Polynesian descent

    • A lot of working class Anglo-Celtic Australians have felt disenfranchised and threatened by multiculturalism and the impact it has on their local communities.

      “A lot” is not evidence. Evidence?

      When they lash out violently lash out in response to the frustrations they feel, they are labeled as racists bigots and their actions are rightfully condemned.Why should these protesters be treated any different just because they are Islamic?

      Taken from a friend’s status update:

      Heres a better question. You don’t like the behavior? Fine, I thought it was distasteful and unwise too. But maybe start asking WHY it happened. Muslims have endured a decade of unprecedented (for them) racism with the tacit aproval of the conservative 50% of the political machine and the drongos that support them. Muslims have endured constant raids by the security services, and constant suspicion of being terrorists just because they might take their religious vows seriously. Muslims can barely turn on the radio without some inbred shitbag on talk back radio angrily demanding they be deported or forcibly converted to christianity. And mainstream politicians have literally discussed banning cultural attire from specific religions as if its somehow acceptable to treat fellow humans so distainfuly.

      In New South Wales, the police have systematically refused to enforce anti discrimination laws, to the point where i literally know people who have been attacked in their homes by people with shotguns and the police have refused to investigate. This lack of action has sprouted this bitter fruit we see today.

      This isnt about cartoons, videos from america, or silly hats for the ladies. Its about a community thats been beaten and abused for so damn long, being riled into flipping the fuck out by racist assholes, and finally some young dudes do what young dudes have always done when pissed off, that is to say, get the riot on.

      Waleed Aly and the Antibogan have demonstrated their both their bias and their lack of credibility as politcal extremists.

      Are you sure you meant to write that?

      • I don’t think old Gilbert read the article but the (very few) guys I saw on tv screaming hatred, fit the definition of bogans to me. In fact, they reminded me of the ADL dickheads who turn up to protest against Islam. Two sides of the same ugly coin.

        • Here here Muslim Bogan. I agree most whole heartedly. I it is exactly two sides of the same coin. Gilbert did you read the article?

        • Totally agree. More and more I find the protests on Saturday are fairly similar to the Cronulla riots. Legitimate grievance exacerbated by hate filled groups, whipping up antagonism with text messages, finally set off by a group of burly dickheads looking for a fight, and culminating in images that shame everyone.

          Strangely enoguh, though, those who protest most about the rally on Saturday are often the ones who think Cronulla was the most perfect day in Australia history.

      • Why do Muslims constantly complain about being targeted by security forces?? Are they so stupid that they fail to understand the reason for this targeting is that it is MUSLIMS are the ones who need to be targeted.

        If the Muslim community did not produce 99% of the terrorists they would not need 99% of the Policing.

        Next they will complain when Police take no chances when Muslims next try to Peacefully Protest, and fail to get the point.

        The point is that the rights that Muslims keep demanding, were not won by Muslims, it was won by Westerners. And these right come with an equally demanding set of obligations. The obligation that if you protest, NOT TO ATTACK THE POLICE AND PRIVATE PROPERTY.

        That if you do not want your community to be targeted as terrorists, then as a community demonstrate that you DO NOT SUPPORT TERRORISTS.

        Until that time, Muslims will continue to reap what they sow. I find it funny how any Muslim can refer any other community as being inbred, when clearly one of the biggest problems facing Muslims worldwide is inbreeding, that is really the pot calling the kettle black!

        • If the Muslim community did not produce 99% of the terrorists they would not need 99% of the Policing.

          Where? Which country? Evidence please.

          I find it funny how any Muslim can refer any other community as being inbred

          What has this to do with anything?

          …one of the biggest problems facing Muslims worldwide is inbreeding

          Proof?

          Amazing how bigots always believe they are entitled to spout evidence-free nonsense.

  3. Are we honestly surprised that members of one of the most peaceful religions on earth struck out? I am not, after years of racist persecution and having to be put up with being labelled as terrorists, spat at, and insulted due to their religion it had to end. Sadly, it ended with a violent protest after this filth appeared. I am not saying that violence is a good thing, but I do not think that different denominations of the Christian church would be so docile if it was Jesus being insulted.

    • One of the “most peaceful religions” you think, Lachy? Statistically, I’d have to say Jainism, Buddhism and Bahai are surely far ahead in terms of being peaceful relative to all three of the Abrahamic (Ibrahimic?) faiths. Wiccans and pagans and the First Australians religions would be up there too peacefulness~wise I’d guess. Could be mistaken. Bit off topic I guess but still.

      I also think that you’ll find plenty of cases where Christians have had offensive films and artworks directed at them and haven’t reacted with quite such extreme (& misplaced) violence.

      It is though, only a noisy minority of extremist Muslims and the majority – especially in Australia – have been quick to condemn the rioters. Not a great look for Islam though (to say the least!) and a (misdirected, hurting the wrong Muslims) anti-Muslim backlash is, sadly almost inevitable?

      Which, in turn, will most probably spark more resentments, more hatred and more reactions and counter reactions. Thus does the cycle go on.

      How to end it? Wish I knew. What can one or even a majority do?

  4. You’re insulting my academic credibility? Uh last time I checked, mindmadeup, a facebook status update didn’t qualify as a first rate academic source, either, you goose. I’m not denying that muslims have had it rough over the last decade (a grave understatement)but that gives absolutely no excuse for anyone to permit such hate, anger and violence that does nothing but bring more discrimination, hate and negativity upon the vast majority of muslim people who have distanced themselves from this extremism. Let’s do it your way – Let’s start by asking WHY the Cronulla riots happened? A lot of people in the Cronulla riots -yes many of them were violent bonehead thugs out for a bit of biff just like on the weekend’s protest – but many participated because of the fear and anger they felt in reaction to violent attacks and abuse they suffered from Lebanese youth (something that from my own experience happened quite commonly in the West of Sydney in the 2000s) and felt that they were being overlooked and ignored by an over politically correct system. Does that make what they did right? Hell no, we should never defend such behaviour. Let’s ask why the ADL and EDL have come into existence in the first place? The ADL and EDL make violent protests not because they are all just evil racists (I know you lot often simplify the issue in this way) but because they are scared of what they don’t know and feel that their culture and history is threatened by muliticulturalism. In London this has become a reality, a prime example being the cockney accent, an accent that has been around for centuries and is an integral part of British culture, being wiped out in a matter of decades and replaced with a mongrel ‘Jafaican’ Ali-G accent. These people are scared and feel as though they are forgotten by multiculturalism. Does that make the hate and violence they spread at their protests forgivable? We both know the answer to that – HELL NO!

    You claim to fight for equality and you claim that you want to put an end to discrimination but allowing one rule for one group and one for another is not equality, it is discrimination in every sense of the word.

    Just for the record, I thought I’d touch upon another example of hypocrisy:

    “Muslims have endured a decade of unprecedented (for them) racism with the tacit aproval of the conservative 50% of the political machine”

    So all conservatives are racist and automatically hate muslims then? That’s a bit of a generalisation isn’t it? I thought this website stood against generalisations? I guess not. It’s okay to make generalisations ONLY when they suit your cause. Hyocrites…

    I know exactly what I meant to write, mindmade up. Did the anti-bogan know what it meant to write when it stated on the About page that you were genuine “anti-discrimination activists” or did it mean to write “hyprocritical, far-left, ill-informed, hates spreading extremists”. No joke, you guys are just as bad as Storm front.

    – Sensible Centrist

    • “In London this has become a reality, a prime example being the cockney accent, an accent that has been around for centuries and is an integral part of British culture, being wiped out in a matter of decades and replaced with a mongrel ‘Jafaican’ Ali-G accent

      Source for this please!

    • You’re insulting my academic credibility?
      We only have your word for that. Now give us evidence for all these pissed-off bogots who fear outsiders.

      Uh last time I checked, mindmadeup, a facebook status update didn’t qualify as a first rate academic source

      We know this guy – no slouch in the brains department and a veteran anti-racist. Good enough for us!

      Let’s ask why the ADL and EDL have come into existence in the first place?

      The UK was forced to crack down on gangs of mindless football hooligans who became the EDL. The ADL is copy-and-paste EDL

      Here’s the intellectual cream of the Defence Leagues on show…

      So all conservatives are racist and automatically hate muslims then?

      Some of them are quite happy to dog-whistle the “base” for political gain.

  5. JM: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10473059, you can google the study by Paul Kerswill if you want a more academic source but really you only have to spend a couple of hours in London to see this.

    “We know this guy – no slouch in the brains department and a veteran anti-racist. Good enough for us!” Haha. Well I am a also “veteran anti-racist” (although my definition of being an anti-racist is obviously quite different because I am NOT an extremist) and I have an extensive university education so if you take his facebook status as a valuable academic source then why shouldn’t my personal experience suffice?

    “We only have your word for that. Now give us evidence for all these pissed-off bogots who fear outsiders” Firstly, it’s a bit hypocritical asking for me to provide evidence when you lot provide such pitiful sources yourself but then again I’ve begun to expect no less from you. Secondly the evidence is right in front of you should you choose to pay attention to it. Look at these “racist bogans” out here, have you ever thought about why these racists act the way they do? As you’ve demonstrated repeatedly on this website you drastically simplify the issue at hand much like your far-right counterparts, claiming that they express these sort of views simply because they are “evil” “rednecks” “inbreds” “bogots”, ect without attempting to make any investigation as to why they are this way in the first place. Sure you will always have your thugs who want to crack skulls for the sake of it but many people possess such prejudice because they are frightened of ‘The Other’ and the changes that the unknown that exists outside of ‘The Self’ will inflict upon the world the live in (even though as we know these fears are usually very misguided). Such fears may include changes to culture, economic situations, employment (Yes “they took our jerbs”, is actually a legitimate fear), personal safety, ect. I’m not saying these fears are valid but they are definitely real. All you have to do is google “fear” and “multiculturalism” and the negative mood of uncertainty, concern and anxiety towards the drastic changes that are occurring in Australian society and the Western World will become quite apparent. Does this mean that we should condone such racist violence and abuse? Of course not, just as we should not condone the Islamic hatred and violence that was justified on the weekend, even though there may be strong fears and emotions that have resulted in such actions taking place.

    “The UK was forced to crack down on gangs of mindless football hooligans who became the EDL. The ADL is copy-and-paste EDL
    Here’s the intellectual cream of the Defence Leagues on show…”
    I’m not denying that the EDL contains mindless football hooligans in its ranks, but there are many that have joined because they have strong concerns about how multiculturalism and Islam are affecting Britain and Europe and feel as though their voice is being overlooked by the political correctness of the main political parties. I’m not saying these concerns are legitimate and I’m by no means condoning the EDL in any way, but these concerns are very real which is why the EDL has found so many members. What I see in the video is a misguided, extremist with an extraordinarily warped view of reality. Hmmm reminds me of some other people I know…

    “Some of them are quite happy to dog-whistle the “base” for political gain.”Some of them might appeal to extremists for political gain but that NEVER makes it right to generalise in such a manner. Left-wing doesn’t automatically equal anti-discrimination either. I’ve met quite a few left-wing people who have a penchant for discriminating against Jews (much like far-right talks about Islam, it often presents itself as political but has undeniable racial overtones). Does that mean that all far-left people are Jew hating racists? Of course it bloody well doesn’t. You know that you’re hypocrites and you’ve proven you have have no solid response for that. Resulting to gag videos and cheap jibes to get your points across. I really expected better to be honest…

    • Second paragraph of your own source:
      “In London, Cockney will be replaced by Multicultural London English – a mixture of Cockney, Bangladeshi and West Indian accents – the study shows.”

      So, the accent is’nt “dying out” or beign killed by Jamaican as you put it, it’s changing and merging with new accents. Which I’m sure you think is shocking and all, but before you go all “The West is being destroyed by outsiders”:-let me remind you of one small thing:

      This is happening EVERYWHERE! ALL languages and accents have been changing and mixing iwth what’s around them, and they always will be doing so. Chinese dialects and Japanese languages are being transofrmed to become more akin to English-the French have been worried about English words breaking into French usage for decades. Malaysian is already merging with English to form Manglish. It’s quite likely the most common language in the future won’t be English, chinese, or anything of that, but a mixture of Chinese and English combined. That is the way the world works-things change. And change is scary, but it’s a part of living.

      You act like Cockney was spoken by the first cave man-cockney would be coming from a mix of the accents of the region, using the language English, which itself is a mix of French, german and Arabic!

      Now if you are serious about preserving languages-fine, and I wish you well on your quest. But, instead, if you are using this as an excuse to state “I want to get rid of all brown people”-sorry, but that’s ignoring the realtiy that ALL languages and ALL accents have been and always will be changing.

      Also, comment from inside the text:
      “Traditional Cockneys have moved out of the capital and into the surrounding counties of Essex and Hertfordshire, especially towns such as Romford and Southend, the study suggests.

      In these areas, the accent and the culture continues to thrive and many teenagers still proudly claim their Cockney roots, according to the study.”

      You didn’t read this article, didn’t you? You said Cockney had been wiped out-but your OWN SOURCE, doesn’t back this up-making it clear that in some areas it has been combined with other accents, and the main accent is still being found otuside of the London area.

      I strongly recommend that an academic like yourself should read beyond the headline before you base an argument on an article.

      “Such fears may include changes to culture, economic situations, employment (Yes “they took our jerbs”, is actually a legitimate fear), ”

      Funnily enough, every person who complains to me about migrants stealing their jobs have yet to provide an example where the migrant is to blame. I’ve heard a lot of people tell me “Migrants have taken all the jobs, so I can’t find work,”-but when I found these people jobs, they stated they weren’t really looking at the moment.
      In the very rare cases where a migrant has taken a job an Australian was going for due to anything other than experience and skills, I provided them with ways to complain to those in power about employers hiring underpaid migrants workers and thus preventing Australians from getting jobs. In this case I was told “But I don’t really like to complain”
      Yep, a person complaining about migrants “Takin’ my job!” was not the sort of person who wanted to complain.

      The truth is migrants are NOT taking our jobs. I’m sure plenty of major employers would like an opportunity to change this, but as long as we have a even standing in terms of income for types of work, not varying because of where a person is from, there really isn’t any advantage in hiring a migrant. As a person who works with new, very eager to work migrants, you find out the opposite is true-new migrants get work that Australian born residents don’t want. Low paying, hard hours-but even if Australian born residents wanted to work in these warehouse, market, or laboring work-they’d still have every advantage over migrants.

      If the pay is the same, after all, migrants are less likely to be hired due to accent, language or experience differences from an Australian resident, as well as employers not relying on anything less than permanent residencny, and uncertainty of how a migrant will work in the new culture.

      Now, if you are talking about people in other countries-that’s where there could be cases of migrants accepting jobs-but if there are actual cases of migrants beign accepted because they accept lower pay rates than white workers-surely this is the fault of the employer, not the migrant?

    • …you can google the study by Paul Kerswill if you want a more academic source

      Languages and accents change over time because of a number of influences, including television and radio. If you want to put the Cockneys in aspic, remember that the Cockney dialect was substantially different at the beginning of the 19th Century to what it is now – Dickens recorded it.

      Not all Londoners were or are Cockneys anyway. “Thames Valley” long ago succeeded local variations of English for the average Home Counties dweller. And that’s from the telly not from immigration. Innit!

      I have an extensive university education

      Congratulations. So do most of the admins and a fair few of our fans.

      Well I am a also “veteran anti-racist”

      Never heard of you.

      Firstly, it’s a bit hypocritical asking for me to provide evidence when you lot provide such pitiful sources yourself

      Dr Kevin Dunn of UWS ring a bell? He has found that only about 10% of the population are paranoid and fearful about multiculturalism. You do a grave disservice by assuming that the 90% of the population comfortable with immigration and multiculturalism do not represent Australians.

      …these concerns are very real

      Oh come on, all they are worried about are immigrants taking their jobs (the few Defence League yoofs who are employed that is) and the women whom they wouldn’t get anyway, being so socially unattractive. The Defence Leagues are in fact a good place to observe the bottom of the gene pool.

      Their disease is called “entitlement”. They think they should have things because via some sort of magical thinking they should have…fings.

      I really expected better to be honest…

      This coming from someone whose e mail addy is “sexytonganbeast”. Come on sonny get the hand off it!

    • …and the main accent is still being found otuside of the London area.

      In Essex? LOL the Essex accent is quite different to Cockney. Been watching too many episodes of The Bill then?

      Or maybe this lass…

      Mind you, we’re not bovered either.

      😀

  6. “That is the way the world works-things change. And change is scary, but it’s a part of living.” I agree with you one hundred percent. You’ve underlined my point – change is scary and that’s why people lash out in such negative ways. It doesn’t make what they do right though does it. Just as fear doesn’t make what the protesters did on the weekend right.

    “You didn’t read this article, didn’t you? You said Cockney had been wiped out-but your OWN SOURCE, doesn’t back this up-making it clear that in some areas it has been combined with other accents, and the main accent is still being found otuside of the London area.” I read my own source clearly enough and while the accent may have migrated, the fact of the matter is the cockney accent is being wiped out of its natural environment and this is a cause of resentment. Resentment may have been what resulted in the actions on the weekend but it doesn’t make it right.

    “You act like Cockney was spoken by the first cave man-cockney would be coming from a mix of the accents of the region, using the language English, which itself is a mix of French, german and Arabic!” Did I ever say anything about the cockney accent’s origins? No, I said it had been around for centuries, in that time it has become a staple of British culture and identity and has never seen such rapid change until the last couple of decades which is a result of multirculturalism.

    “But, instead, if you are using this as an excuse to state “I want to get rid of all brown people”-sorry, but that’s ignoring the realtiy that ALL languages and ALL accents have been and always will be changing.” Whoa whoa slow down mate, “using this as an excuse to get rid of brown people?” stop putting words in my mouth. I’m brown myself, you goose and the whole reason I started posting on here was to campaign against the discrimination YOU lot are making in the first place by having different standards for different ethnicities. Yes all languages change and are always change but the cockney accent has changed and declined at a rapid and unnatural rate as a result of multiculturalism. I never once blamed brown people or any specific group for this but I used this example to highlight the point that white people are capable of feeling fear and resentment just like immigrants do. Is it an excuse to react violently and in a racist manner? Never!

    “The truth is migrants are NOT taking our jobs. I’m sure plenty of major employers would like an opportunity to change this, but as long as we have a even standing in terms of income for types of work, not varying because of where a person is from, there really isn’t any advantage in hiring a migrant. ” I agree completely. I never once said this fear was valid. It’s completely misguided in Australia but it doesn’t change the fact that many people do fear losing their jobs to immigrants. Is it an excuse to react violently and in a racist manner? Never!

    “If you want to put the Cockneys in aspic, remember that the Cockney dialect was substantially different at the beginning of the 19th Century to what it is now – Dickens recorded it” Of course it was, I’m not denying that accents or speech change, never once did I do such a thing. But only someone with their head in the sand or a political extremist can deny that the cockney accent has changed and declined at an unnatural and rapid rate. For something that has existed for centuries to change more than it ever has in a matter of decades is not a result of natural evolution. The East End cockney is an integral part of British culture and identity. Having no cockneys in the east end is anymore is a frightening prospect to many. Is it an exsuse to react violently and in a racist manner? Never!

    “Never heard of you”. So you’re saying in order to oppose racism I have to belong to your little elitist, extremist club? Get a life! I am anti-racist, a real one because I’m not selective about what kinds of racism I oppose as you’ve proven with your responses to this article. I oppose all racism and want to work towards ending it instead of simlplifying the issue with snide comments and gag videos. You don’t care about ending racism, you just care about aggravating racists. That’s why I find this site so disturbing because it actually indirectly encourages racist attitudes with its extremist lynch mob tactics. Do you really think finding someone who makes a on off the cuff comment like “spot the aussie” and subjecting them to a stream of abuse and hated worse than what they actually said in the first place is actually going to put an end to racism? Of course it isn’t, treating racism with more hatred, its just going to encourage further hate from both sides, aggravate these racists more and in doing so reinforce their racist attitudes, especially when you’re treating one group differently to another as you’re demonstrating in this article. If actually you knew anything about racism you would know that it cannot simply be switched on and off. Prejudice is often ingrained into someone as a result of personal experiences or influential opinions over a period of time (Hell I have predjuices ingrained into me as a result of negative personal experiences with that I can’t switch off, I’m not proud of them and I’d never ever voice them or judge an individual on them but they are nevertheless still there). This may come as a surprise to you but racism is actually pretty damn complicated. While we should never tolerate violent acts or people who encourage violence and hate against others (people who speak positively about racist bashing, killing and other acts of racist violence deserve what they get here so I applaud you for that), simply condemning racist attitudes such as “spot the aussie” in such an abusive manner does not work and will never work. A much more productive way of fighting racism is to educate people and discover what the causes of it are so that we can get past of it. Of course such an approach would never go down well on this site. It’s not controversial or exciting enough for you extremists and would never get the views that the page currently has. Oh well, I’m allowed to dream.

    “Oh come on, all they are worried about are immigrants taking their jobs (the few Defence League yoofs who are employed that is) and the women whom they wouldn’t get anyway, being so socially unattractive. The Defence Leagues are in fact a good place to observe the bottom of the gene pool.” Once again simplifying the issue of racism with snide, pompous, remarks without bothering to pay any attention to the real causes or factors. I’m not in the least bit surprised.

    “This coming from someone whose e mail addy is “sexytonganbeast”. Come on sonny get the hand off it!” And I thought the email addresses at antibogan were made “never made public” or wait, does that rule only apply for the people who agree with your extremist philosophies? Yet another example of the Antibogan’s lies and hypocrisy.

    • …the fact of the matter is the cockney accent is being wiped out of its natural environment and this is a cause of resentment.

      The decline of Cockney has more to do with television than it does with immigration. Don’t you think if London kids spend hours watching Neighbours, Home and Away, Twilight etc etc that just maybe their accent might disappear? Don’t you think that the gentrification of inner London just might mean that the plummy tones of Knightsbridge and Chelsea might just replace Cockney?

      So you’re saying in order to oppose racism I have to belong to your little elitist, extremist club?

      Doubt if we’d have you if you came with fries. Too ambivalent.

      …and discover what the causes of it are so that we can get past of it.

      Racists may not be responsible for economic conditions in their country which create grumpy underclasses with unspecified gripes against minorities (Roma and travellers cop it in Britain as well) but they are responsible for their own racism.

    • “read my own source clearly enough and while the accent may have migrated, the fact of the matter is the cockney accent is being wiped out of its natural environment and this is a cause of resentment. ”

      Yous aid the accent is being wiped out. Your source disagreed to this, so you try and change what you said to suit the source.
      Let me ask you a question-if an animal moves to another area of the world and does very well there-are you going to say the animal had been WIPED OUT, in its natural habitat? Or would you say its migrated, and doing very well?

      “I agree completely. I never once said this fear was valid”

      But you said it was a legitimate fear! Make your mind up

      “A much more productive way of fighting racism is to educate people and discover what the causes of it are so that we can get past of it. Of course such an approach would never go down well on this site. It’s not controversial or exciting enough for you extremists and would never get the views that the page currently has. Oh well, I’m allowed to dream.”

      Well, here’s your platform. How would you run this site if you had the chance? I’d like to hear your answer.

      Yes, I agree racism should be battled through education as well. Absolutely I do. Btu this isn’t what this site is about.

      This site is making clear that discrimination and racism, which persecutes, marginalises and attacks minority groups in our coutnry is not tolerated. Even if you say it online where you can’t see people being hurt, it’s still not to be tolerated.

      Racism may be cured by education, but TAB isn’t trying to stop racism-it’s trying to stop it breeding. And racism breeds by having itself tolerated by others. Each time a person puts a racist post out to all their friends and no one challenges it, the person says to himself “Wow-guess everyone agrees with me. Guess my belief is the norm” and then feels maybe something a bit more extreme would be okay. Now in public, he’d be challenged. Someone would tell him to stop beign an idiot-but online that rarely happens.

      I’m sure that after people are posted here they would,mostly, continue to have racist attitudes afte teh fact. But the differece is their beliefs would at last be challenged, and perhaps even punished, which would inform them that their beliefs are not tolerated in Australian society. Racism continues, as it always will, but it moves moe into the underground, dark thoughts which people are ashamed to voice, rather than brought out in public and celebrated.

      Now if TAB would organise a massive education program, that would be great, but it’s a bit hard to manage on a wordpress blog.

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