“We came here to learn, but we live in fear” – a Chinese student writes

Shuting Dong
May 11, 2012

Opinion

Chinese people perceive violent Australian youth to pose a serious threat to the safety of Chinese students. Photo: Louise Kennerly

An attack in Sydney reinforces a Chinese student’s perceptions.

A gang of six teenagers were reported last month to have harassed passengers on a train in Sydney. When they confronted a female passenger, she pointed desperately at two Chinese men sitting opposite her and said “Rob them. They are Asian. They are rich.”

The men, who were international students, were taunted as “Asian dogs and pussies” and assaulted. They were left with broken bones and cigarette burns.

One student had his mouth stuffed with a used tampon, which an assailant had removed from her underpants. The gang was later charged with assault and robbery, but no one on the train at the time offered help.

At least, that is the account of events that sent shockwaves through Australia’s international student community, particularly those of us from China.

An online posting by one of the victims, a 29-year-old master’s student known as Xuan, was re-tweeted more than 10,000 times within a day on microblogging website Weibo, China’s version of Twitter. Thousands more people expressed their disgust over the attack on the site, run by Chinese internet giant Sina.

It made headlines in China, with state broadcaster The China Central Television network warning that violent Australian youth pose a serious threat to the safety of Chinese students.

I learnt of the attack within hours. So did my mum back in Hefei, in the Anhui province of China, who saw it on the news.

She rang me worried she had sent her only child into danger in a foreign country. I imagine many of the more than 100,000 Chinese students studying here received similar calls.

The incident will only add to Australia’s reputation for violence against international students, which is mostly because of attacks against Indians. Whether this is deserved or not doesn’t alter the fact that every newly-arrived international student is quickly initiated into the terrifying folklore whispered from one graduating class to the next.

Stories are told and retold about racial assaults that the police do little about. When I arrived here in February last year, I was warned to “never, ever, travel at night”. The power these stories have on the experience of international students cannot be underestimated. While I have never been subject to overt racism, I am nevertheless always cautious, even on edge.

Like many Chinese, I choose to live as close as I can to the CBD to avoid long trips on public transport. Only once have I left my apartment after 9pm. If I have to travel in the evening, I sit as close as I can to the door. I text my friends when I get on trams and tell them to ring the police if they don’t receive a text to say that I have got off.

The reason the Sydney incident struck a chord with many of us wasn’t just because it was our worst fear played out. It was the reference to Chinese students being rich. Many of us feel exploited because of our perceived wealth and sense an undercurrent of resentment against us. This latest attack confirmed it.

It is easy to see why Australian youth might perceive us as wealthy. Foreign students are the cash cows of a more than $16 billion international education industry, the third-largest export industry of Australia. We also serve as a significant source of domestic economic growth. Research by my own university last year found that every Australian undergraduate student is subsidised to the tune of $1200 by international student fees.

My annual tuition fee for a bachelor of arts degree is about $26,000. Books, rent, food and everything else is on top of that.

As international students we are not entitled to the student discount on myki fares that local students receive. A seven-day pass, single-zone for student concession card holders is $9.20. For us it’s $18.40.

In the rental market we pay more too because we usually can’t get access to mainstream housing. Student accommodation is usually above $200 a week.

It sometimes feels like we are “ripped off” every way we turn. But does paying more for everything necessarily mean that we are rich?

There are Asian students who come from wealthy families. But I also know many Asian students who work here in crappy jobs such as kitchen hands and supermarket shelf-stackers to support their study. Some of my friends don’t return home for holidays until graduation to save money, even though most of us Chinese students are precious only children.

I am from a lower-middle-class family. My parents work in a hospital and spent half their life savings to educate me here. They don’t take annual leave and mostly work six days a week to support me. While we are better off than previous generations of our family who came from villages in the countryside, we don’t consider ourselves rich.

I, like all of my friends here, have come to Australia, not because we have money to burn, but because we don’t have the same opportunities to pursue our ambitions back in our homeland. We come because our dedicated parents would sacrifice anything they could to help us to get a better, Western education. We come because we admire Australia’s diverse culture and its lively academic atmosphere. We come to accept and try to fit into a society so wonderfully different to our own.

It is a shame that many of us don’t feel that acceptance and respect returned. I would like to feel safe in Australia, at home even, but it is hard to relax enough to make real connections here with nightmare stories such as Xuan’s circulating.

Shuting Dong is an international student at the University of Melbourne.

Source

118 thoughts on ““We came here to learn, but we live in fear” – a Chinese student writes

  1. Sob Sob. Moan Moan. Do any of you know anyone who has studied in China? I have a family member who studied there on a scholarship for 2 years. White Aussies are treated like shit. But then again you’re qualified to speak on the subject, aren’t you ? Most of the subjects covered in this forum are subjects none of you would have the 1st clue about. But that’s never stopped you before.

    • With Mick claim about his family he should look up the meaning of hearsay?

      1.unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one’s direct knowledge.

    • With his claims about a family member, I guess he didn’t look up the meaning of the word, hearsay?

      Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience.

    • Please elucidate, Mick, how badly were your relatives treated in China? Did they have a use tampon stuffed in thier mouth? Were other Chinese people telling thugs “Beat up those white people, they’re rich”? Were your relatives beaten up in public without anyone helping them? Anything like that?

      Or maybe you’re just annoyed that the Chinese didn’t speak English to your relatives-how rude of them! Totally worse than being assaulted in public, I know.

    • Treated like shit is just perceptional Mick. There are different perceptions from different people. Treated like shit is a far cry from agressive taunts and being bashed or worse… Killed. I’m sure you treat Chinise people like shit Mick, am I right. People like you and those agressive or violent there don’t help the perceptions against Australians. You are the reason the International world is doubting our once friendly reputation.

  2. I’m a shitstirring internet troll who harasses people under a false persona on the internet and now they know who I am.

  3. I’m a smartass little prick who likes trolling the internet under an anonymous profile and the people I hassle have found out who I am and where I live.

  4. An anecdotal report masquerading as fact TAB?

    & who were the ‘ attackers’? Maybe they were ‘ other ‘ ethnic enrichers, from all we could tell from this story.

    ” Anecdotes are not evidence. Give us evidence”

    Oh indeed. None here so far. another epic fail..

    • None too busy over in APP land lately, eh ‘Grant’?

      lol… I guess it’s not like there’s any need to bother campaigning or speaking to potential constituents, because the APP are always going to fail.

      Tee hee… you know what epic failure looks like up close, eh?

      • Evidently theres not much happening in kumbaya land with the time you & your mates spend talking shit on here.

        nevertheless I believe there are some more activities coming up- you’ll be able to bitch for weeks. Haha

        • I assume you’re referring to the planned protest that members of the APP plan on holding outside a Sydney primary school?

          Predicted outcome:

          .

          followed by:

          .

        • Wait, the APP is protesting at school children now?

          Yep, that’s the way to win votes-hassle the underage. Do any members of anti-Islamic groups actually respect children? If it’s not the APP members talking about killing ’em, it’s the EDL trying to have sex with them, or it’s just Grant trying to intimidate them.

      • So, a story reported in a new outlet which has resulted in the arrests of several people…that’s anecdotal to you, is it Grant?

        And why so eager to find out the ethnicity of the perpetrators? After all, wouldn’t it be bad no matter who the thugs were? Or are you going to tell us right here and now that assaulting Asians is only a bad thing if you’re not a white guy doing it?

        I would like to, just once, have an APP member state that a particular action is wrong regardless of the skin colour, or political belief of the perpertrator or the victim. So far everything, from child murder, to lying, to violating free speech, to sexual abuse is only wrong if it isn’t done by a member of the APP, or has been done to a member of the APP. Otherwise-it’s fine.

        • Where does it say there were arrests?

          The assertion from you, & the wingeing Asian here is: the perps were Aust. ( code for white).

          There are assaults all over the world, all the time. So fucking what?

          Melodramatic bullshit.

          As usual, all you’re are worried about are foreigners.

          Muslims & other cultural enrichers pack rape white girls, oh fuck, just business as usual right?

          yep, there gangs of whites that pack rape Muslim girls- where?

          Was the asian girl pack raped by whites? piss off.

        • “Where does it say there were arrests?”

          In the third paragraph Grant The gang was later charged with assault and robbery, but no one on the train at the time offered help.

          You really don’t like reading things, do you?

          “The assertion from you, & the wingeing Asian here is: the perps were Aust. ( code for white).”

          No, you really like to imagine you’re being persecuted, arent you? No, the assertion was that the international students were not feeling safe in Australia. You saw this as reading “White people are attacking us” because that ties into your belief that white people are being persecuted all over the world. Or maybe you were just seeing things.

          And just to be clear-if someone says “I’m worried because people who look like me have been attacked because they are Asian”-that’s whingeing to you, is it? You really are incapable of sympathy to anyone who isn’t you? I mean, if you were assaulted on a train by a group of men after being told that you were rich, and no one helped you, would you be “whinging” or just keeping quiet?

          “There are assaults all over the world, all the time. So fucking what?”

          So that makes it justified? There arerapes all over the world too-perhaps we shouldn’t be worried about them either?

          Oh, I forgot, you don’t worry about that. You don’t care unless it’s a non-white person who does it. It’s almost like, and I’m shocked that I have to say it, but Grant, you don’rt care if someone is raped, or is a rapist, you don’t care if someopne assaults or is assaulted, you don’t care if someone is even murdered. Murder rape and assault aren’t crimes to you-the crime was being not-white.

          “As usual, all you’re are worried about are foreigners.”

          Nothing of the sort. We want all rapists, and assaults prosecuted, and the perpertrators arrested, charged and convicted. Unlike you who seems to only want that to happen when the victim is white, and the perpertraor is not white, right?

          “Muslims & other cultural enrichers pack rape white girls, oh fuck, just business as usual right? ”

          They get arrested. They get charged. Is that not sufficient to you? Do you think non-white people who rape should be charged harsher than white people who rape?

          “Was the asian girl pack raped by whites? piss off.”

          Okay, so if an Asian girl is pack raped by white people, sghe’s allowed to complain? If she or a family member are murdered or assaulted (And both have happened plenty by the way), then they’re not allowed to complain? What a funny world you live in.

        • What I love when speaking to an APP member is eventually they have two arguments that are totally contradictory. So now, ladies and gentlemen, let’s introduce a brilliant debate, a debate of:

          GRANT vs GRANT:

          Grant 1 stated: “Muslims & other cultural enrichers pack rape white girls”

          Grant 2 countered: “There are assaults all over the world, all the time. So fucking what?”

          Let’s leave these two arguments to fight it out inside Grant’s head.

      • We hold you to a higher standard of evidence than we do the SMH Niqi….err “Grant”. After all you do have such delusions of grandeur.

        Of course, hardly surprising considering the number of gays & lefttists that work at the herald. What did fred hollows call the SMH again?

        • I repeat:
          “So, a story reported in a new outlet which has resulted in the arrests of several people…that’s anecdotal to you, is it Grant?

          And why so eager to find out the ethnicity of the perpetrators? After all, wouldn’t it be bad no matter who the thugs were? Or are you going to tell us right here and now that assaulting Asians is only a bad thing if you’re not a white guy doing it?”

          So instead of actually responding to anything anyone said, you decided to call the entire newpaper gay and leftist. I thought you wanted to save the homosexual community from the Muslims, Grant, or are you telling us you actually hate homosexuals just as much as the Muslims?

  5. More irrational emotive bullshit from you.

    This is the best you’ve got TAB?

    where did i say the whole herald was gay??? LOL

    You posted this whole load of anecdotal crap, because the inference here, is that the perpetrators are whites.

    The bottom line here, is that you won’t say, or the authors won’t say who the perps were in terms of their ethnic background which means you are hiding the fact that other imported third world enrichers did these ‘ crimes’ (assuming this story isn’t a load of bullshit.)

    Another epic fail for your ethnic enrichment bullshit. while you attempt to blame ‘ Australians for these types of crimes.

    • Again, Grant, to you, anecdotal means:
      “Published in a major newspaper, resulting in arrests”-what then is a story not anecdotal? when Darrin Hodges tells it to you?

      Oh wait, you’ve already told us:

      “The bottom line here, is that you won’t say, or the authors won’t say who the perps were in terms of their ethnic background which means you are hiding the fact that other imported third world enrichers did these ‘ crimes’ (assuming this story isn’t a load of bullshit.)”

      Pt 1-No longer satisfied in thinking that all non-whites are now Muslims, Grant is telling us that by not sayiong what the ethnic background is of a perpetrator, it means they’re probably not qwhite.
      Yep, Grant actually believes this. He believes that newspapers are purposefully keeping ethnic backgrounds seret, only when they’re not talking about white people. Rather than, y’know, the other way around. Tell you what Grant, you find me an article in a major newspaper where the perpertrator was white, and we can tell by their photo, and the headline somewhere involves the words; “Caucasian” or “White” in their description. You do that, and prove that newspapers are quick to blame white people for everything.

      Pt 2- A white person tells a story-even a story whhich is sligtly suspect, and Grant responds with “We must punish all non-white people for this crime”

      A non-white person tells a story, a story that has resulted in arrests, and his reaction is “They’re probably lying”
      Pray tell, Grant, do you think all non-white migrants are liars? Which cultural groups are the most and least likely to lie for no reason?

    • Grant, none of the newspaper reports specify it so there’s no cover up here. I strongly suspect they would have specified if they were of a non-white ethnicity.

      • The use of vague terms, such as ‘ youths’ ‘ teenagers’ etc that do not specify of use racial/ cultural/ religious descriptors mean the perps are non white. This type of PC is now part & parcel of media practice with leftist thinking corrupting reporting right to the top.

        You are naive.

        After the Cronulla incident, gov. agencies/ multiculti industry, Muslim groups got together to make sure this practice was extended. The problem as they saw it, was not out of control ethnic crime, but the fact that it was being reported.

        Who on earth do you think are responsible for the current raft of driveby shootings? Kids from the upper north shore? LOL.

        An examle of this is when the Cabramatta gang & drug scene was out of control & Tim Priest blew the whistle on it. And I think tim priest knows more than you. Try reading: To protect and Serve. Or maybe tim priest made all this up?

        The police ( using creative stats) tried at the time to make out there was more crime in upper North shore roseville.

        • Grant, you seem to be avoiding some statistics I put to you. You strike me as being a somewhat amateur member of a lowly, largely disliked political party.

          Am I close?

    • So…why are you angry when a fundamentalist Muslim government executes the homosexuals? You don’t care about do-gooders dying, your party members have already said they’re happy to kill children of do-gooders so the adults shouldn’t be the problem. So what reason do you have to complain about homosexuals being killed by Muslims when you’ve no interest in saving gays, and in fact, are probably glad they were killed?

      Why don’t you just admit it, Grant. Be honest to yourself. Tell us all loudly and proudly: “The only crime for me, and for the APP, is to be a Muslim, not be a member of the APP, and not be white. Anything els, any other crime you might see to be a problem, it’s only a problem if a non-white, a Muslim, or a person from another political party does it-otherwise it is fine, and in fact should be legalised”

      We all alrerady know it, why don’t you just admit it.

      • Why would I be angry?

        it merely illustrates your rank stupidity.

        If you have a death wish: – self inflicted. Why would I care.?

        you are siding with a supremicist death cult.

        Your next brain’ll be your first one.

        • So, you’re not angry. So why do you care? Surely you should be cheering on Muslims killing homosexuals, as your own party and own personal belief of homosexuality is hardly better, right?

      • If you think kissing Muslim arse will save you you’d be dead wrong they hate your guts because you’re an infidel.

        They hate anyone that disbelieves the ‘ word of Allah’ and his ‘ messenger’. LOL

        A little excerpt from the Muslim village idiots:

        Review continues at:
        http://qa.sunnipath….D=2240&CATE=389

        So what does Reliance of the Traveller say with regard to witness testimony? It says:

        “O24.2 Legal testimony is only acceptable from a witness who:
        (a) is free;
        (b) is fully legally responsible (mukallaf, def: c8.1) (O: as testimony is not accepted
        from a child or insane person, even when the child’s testimony regards injuries among
        children that occurred at play);
        © is able to speak;
        (d) it mentally awake;
        (e) is religious (O: meaning upright (o24.4) (A: and Muslim), for Allah Most High says,
        “Let those of rectitude among you testify” (Koran 65:2),
        and unbelief is the vilest form of corruption, as goes without saying)”

        LOL your ‘unbelief’ , is “the vilest form of corruption.”

        • So when will the great Muslim uprising in Australia happen? There’s already 300,000 of them darling.

          It’s a chance worth taking. If they are the heartless killers you claim them all to be, I’m sure the first they’ll seek out are those who opposed their existence and generalised them all to be rapists, pedophiles and murderers.

          It’s a chance I’m personally prepared to take. I have serious doubts that my life will be ended at the hands of a Muslim involved in some kind of apocalyptic free for all – a scenario you seem more than happy to devote your life to fearing.

          Nicholas Folkes

        • “If you think kissing Muslim arse will save you you’d be dead wrong they hate your guts because you’re an infidel.”

          You honestly think that, don’t you? You think everyone agrees that all Muslims, probably from conception, are about to kill everyone who isn;t a Muslim, and we’re just trying to stay on the right side of them.

          Grant, quick quesiton, what would it take for your belief of Muslims to be false? What would need to happen for you to re-think your belief, based on a meeting of probably around 0 Muslims in real life? Or is it a case that nothing will convince you, and you think that having a belief that can never be challenged somehow make you strong, when we all know it means you will forever ignore evidence that doesn’t fit with your theory.

          The truth Grant, is that Muslims aren’t out to get you. They want to just get on with their lives, like most of us. Those of us who actually know Muslims realise this. We just want to live our lives, not wasting it like some retarded Don Quixote, running at every single windmill you see, declaring it to be a monster.

        • By the way, I’ve mentioned this to you before, and you’ve ignored it because it doesn’t fit into your personal theory and so it must be ignored.

          The reliance of the traveller is one of many Islamic legal texts. It is not at the same level of the Quran, nor is it followed by a majority of Muslims. It is, at best, representative of one school of Islamic thought, which is practised by at best 29% of Muslims worldwide.

          So your smoking gun of a reference, the only one you use, represents less than a third of the Islamic world.

  6. OH my, seriously, the stories on here disturb me. Maybe I should stay off this site and live in my naive little world. Chinese people wouldn’t be treated like that in my country town. Unfortunaetly we don’t have universities for people to attend. I know country people have a name as being closed-minded etc but there is NO WAY anyone would ever do such a thing like that. People here are welcomed. Whatever race, if they obey the law and are wonderful people (kind hearted etc.) then they are welcomed.
    This article has really disgusted me.

  7. I go to the the University of Melbourne, the same uni as Shuting Dong. I am a local student but my degree cost more than hers and I also get no help from the government. No concession ticket either.
    My parents don’t pay the bill like her mummy and daddy did.

    I had to laugh when she wrote how scared she was to go out at night. When I went to China the first thing I was told was “Never go to a deserted toilet because there are people who harvest organs on the black market”. Not to mention the recent arrests of activist Chen Guangcheng’s family from the Chinese Government. She’s scared of Melbourne??

    In Melbourne 2/3 of the people living in the inner city are Asian. If she doesn’t feel safe here than I don’t think she would feel safe anywhere.

    This article was a student getting a platform to whine about the things she doesn’t like about my country. If you don’t like it, Shuting, ….

    • Shuting pays $26,000 per year for a Bachelor of Arts degree. Bachelor of Arts. You pay more than that? Are you doing a post-graduate degree or a bachelor degree? If her mummy and daddy are paying for her degree, that’s money they’re not spending on anything else for her. It’s not the easy-ride-through-life situation you think it is.

      Lauren, you make the mistake of assuming that because someone dares to speak out about the safety of international students in Australia that they must be either excusing/ignoring/misunderstanding the dangers to students in other countries. That’s as ignorant as they come, my dear.

      Get off your high horse and understand that international students feel trepidation in our country, and understand that this is a problem that threatens the third largest export industry in Australia. Rather than assuming that the writer believes all countries around the world including China to be warm, safe places to be educated, realise that there are a lot of reasons for international students to fear student life here in Australia. Acknowledging or even mentioning the safety of other countries is completely irrelevant.

    • Local Student-I’ve just finished a two year Master degree at Melbourne Uni, and quite frankly, a lot of what you are saying is false.

      1) I am a local student but my degree cost more than hers

      Any undergraduate degree at a level 1 level, and most Masters are cheaper than international student degrees, UNLESS you are paying using a HELP scheme. But in that case, the HELP scheme means that, unlike the international students who must pay up front, you don’t have to pay until you’re making around $60,000 a year.

      2) ” and I also get no help from the government. No concession ticket either.”

      But you are eligible to apply for this help. Firstly, if you are an undergraduate student, you are eligible for a concession card. If you are not, but can prove financial hardship (Making less than $8000 over 8 weeks I think it is), you are eligible for a health care card from Centrelink, which makes you entitled to a concession card.

      There are also special government funds (Youth Allowance & AUSTUDY), as well as plenty of scholarships (Both through your University and through Centrelink) which only Australian residents are eligible for. Speak to your scholarship office and see which ones can help you-there’s stuff about being a rural student for starters.

      3) “My parents don’t pay the bill like her mummy and daddy did.”

      Then who does? Who paid for the cost of your university course? If you’re paying for a HELP funded course, then guess what-we all paid for your course, including the international students. So you should be thanking us.
      True, you are expected to pay those course fees back, but that’s much better than what the international students are being asked to do.

      “I had to laugh when she wrote how scared she was to go out at night. When I went to China the first thing I was told was “Never go to a deserted toilet because there are people who harvest organs on the black market”. ”

      So urban legend of bodily organs being stolen from a toilet is apparently at the same level as report in newspaper leading to actual arrests?

      “Not to mention the recent arrests of activist Chen Guangcheng’s family from the Chinese Government. She’s scared of Melbourne??”

      So, because China has a corrupt government that punishes free speech, she shouldn’t be worried about gangs targetting Asians for looking like they’re rich? Is that right?

      Let me put it to you this way. Suppose it was you who was assaulted because of the way you look, a tampon stuffed in your mouth, ciggerettes burned onto you, and no one helped you. Would you be complaining about how worried you were, or would you be thinking “Well, I might’ve been killed in another country, so I won’t worry about this very real assault I am experiencing”? Let me know.

      “In Melbourne 2/3 of the people living in the inner city are Asian. If she doesn’t feel safe here than I don’t think she would feel safe anywhere.”

      You didn’t read the article, did you? It specifically says she lives in the inner city so she doesn’t have to risk public transport to the outer suburbs. I don’t know what your definition of “safety” is, but to me, being stuck in one place for fear of what should happen to me if I try to visit a different area is not safe.

      “This article was a student getting a platform to whine about the things she doesn’t like about my country. If you don’t like it, Shuting, ….”

      Okay, let’s look at this. Suppose you did go to China, and someone you knew there had their organs stolen. If you complained about it, someone told you “Well, if you don’t like it, go home”
      Would you go “Fair enough-you make a good point, I shall leave”? Or would you go “No! This is not right, being assaulted is not something I should just accept!”?

      As always, one rule for people who are you, and another for people who aren’t, right?

    • Believing a urban legend, I am wondering where else Local Student got their information from?

      More media articles?

  8. My course cost $30,000 upfront, I paid for it and I am not eligible for concession. I do not earn more than $60,000 per year. There are local students in my course also doing it tough. JM, you didn’t pay for my degree.

    It says in the article that her parents paid for her degree (sounds like an easy ride to me).

    Not only international students are doing it tough, that is all that I meant to say.
    I feel like our government doesn’t really care about it either.
    (This was highlighted with Ted Baillieu’s recent funding cut to TAFE courses).

    • “My course cost $30,000 upfront, I paid for it and I am not eligible for concession. ”

      Okay, this is for my own curiosity now. What course is it that costs so much, has no HELP or HECS scheme places associated to it? And how are you not eligible for a healthcare card?
      I mean, you can apply for these separate from an application of financial support, so even if you’re not eligible for Youth Allowance or Austudy (Quite likely if you can’t prove independance, or weren’t from a poor enough background)- but you can still apply for a health-care card through centrelink based on your income thus far.

      “I do not earn more than $60,000 per year. ”

      Then why on earth didn’t you go for a HECS degree so you wouldn’t have to pay it back until you were earning that much?

      I’ve done 6 years of university, three degrees at three different universities. I’ve only had to pay for 1 year ($12,500 per year), and even then there was a Government scheme that I could access to fund it. The remaining 5 years I don’t have to pay back at all until I am making over $60,000 a year.

      Incidentally, althoguh I was only entitled to a concession card for those first three years, through a healthcare card, I was able to access concession tickets for most of the remaining 3 years, except when my fiancee earned too much money.

      “It says in the article that her parents paid for her degree (sounds like an easy ride to me). ”

      Really? And you’d know that, understanding what her parents had to go to in order to pay for that degree? Here’s stories I’ve heard first hand of what parents have done in order to ensure their children get a good degree:

      -Choose a child to provide education for-can only afford to pay for a course for one student.
      -Get rid of all their savings reserved for retirement.
      -In one case, sell the famiyl business, and home, and move in with their adult children (Admittedly, that was a case of a family persecuted by the Taliban).

      It’s amazing what people will do in order to get their children are good education, isn’t it? Would you call any of the above decisions “easy”? Tell me right now, would you swap your position for any of the students listed above?

      “Not only international students are doing it tough, that is all that I meant to say.”

      But you didn’t say that! If you said “Yeah, international students are being screwed over, as are local students”-you wouldn’t be getting complaints from anyone here. Hell, we’re all meant to be communists anyway, so saying how much you dislike how the government screws of students from all backgrounds is more likely to get cheers.

      But you didn’t go after the government. You went after international students. This is the exact line which showed it:

      “This article was a student getting a platform to whine about the things she doesn’t like about my country. If you don’t like it, Shuting, ….”

      Again, the “whinging” you are describing was feeling fearful because people in Sydney were attacked BECAUSE they were Asian. Your response wasn’t “That’s terrible, though all students gets screwed over, let’s complain about the system”-it was “This person is complaining about people lookign like her being assautled because of their background-that’s nothing! I had to pay too much for a course”

      Now you’ve realised what you said was at least silly, and highly offensive as well, and are trying to rephrase your argument into something non-offensive in the hope everyone will forget you compared paying too much for a course as beign at the same level of living in fear because people who look like you have been assaulted on a public train with no one trying to help them.

      It’s not working, local student.

    • You paid $30,000 up front? And you don’t earn more than $60K per year? How is it that you’re in such a comfortable financial position that you can find a lazy $30K to throw at up front educational costs?

      Did your parents give you a bit of dosh? Or do you sell drugs?

    • I like to know where Local Student got the money to pay for food, accommodation and other study items like books?

      Did their parents pay for it?

  9. Local Student FINALLY told us what Uni they goes to.

    Now how long do we have to wait before they tell what degree they do?

    But if they don’t like what students are doing based on newspaper articles, they can give up studying and LEAVE the Uni?

  10. Reality hurts and mindmap, my parents didn’t pay for it, I paid for it and I worked for a year before I could start the degree. Then I saved up some money each week through my degree as well (still going). I said that I was going to Melb Uni the first time I wrote in?

    JM, I appreciate your comments the most, as they actually seem constructive and are really helping me flesh out my confused feelings about being a student in Melbourne. That’s the reason I decided to write into the blog- not to just to hate on people as some others are doing.

    There isn’t an option for HECs in the degree I am doing at any uni in Melb. (otherwise I would have been in there like swimwear). I think I will check out a healthcard.

    I continue to think that she has had an easier ride than me, financially. This has been a hard slog (and will continue) and for me personally, not my parents.

    I didn’t go after international students. I went after one international student. It wasn’t offensive, she was whinging. She went on about how there are all these ‘stories’ about attacks here in Australia. I pointed out that there are the same ‘stories’ about China. She complains about her degree, when some local students are doing it tougher.

    I haven’t really talked about racial attacks at all. I didn’t say the attack was nothing, JM. It was deplorable what happened in Sydney. I have no solution though.
    Shuting seemed to think the solution was understanding that Asian students aren’t rich, but I don’t think that is the solution. I don’t know what is though. What combats racial hate?

    At the end of the day I am more mad at the government than Shuting. I think she had the potential to really make an impact for the international students with her article and it just fell so short of the mark.

    • Ok Local Student if you are in fact “At the end of the day I am more mad at the government than Shuting” then where did you actually attack The Government?

    • Let me get this straight. You worked for one year on $60,000 and managed to save $30,000, which was enough to pay for your university degree up front. During this time, you also managed to pay for food, rent, social commitments, mobile phone, Internet and travel expenses and income tax. And during your time at Uni, you managed to continue to work in a full time position, still earning $60,000 per year with the added expense of additional educational costs and still managed to save each week?

      If all this is true, and you had no parental assistance, I would like you to sit down with Wayne Swan and Joe Hockey for a bit and show them how a budget really works.

    • “I went after one international student. It wasn’t offensive, she was whinging. She went on about how there are all these ‘stories’ about attacks here in Australia. I pointed out that there are the same ‘stories’ about China.”

      But the difference is, her stories of Chinese people being beaten up because they are Chinese HAPPENED! It resulted in actual arrests! And you told her because of this assault and her reaction to it, that maybe she should go back to her own country.

      I’ve searched hard and I haven’t found any cases, not a single one, of tourists having organs stolen in China. An underground organ trade, where the poor are encouraged to sell their organs-yes. An illegal sale of the organs of executed prisoners-yes. But ‘Tourists being grabbed in public toilets nad having their organs stolen”-not a single case!

      ” She complains about her degree, when some local students are doing it tougher.”

      The impetus for the article is people who look like her are being attacked because they look like her. You seem to think that being afraid because of that makes you a whinger!

      Yet, for some reason, complaining about your own course cost does not make you a whinger.

      “I haven’t really talked about racial attacks at all. I didn’t say the attack was nothing, JM. It was deplorable what happened in Sydney. I have no solution though.”

      No one’s asking for one! Do you think we were expecting you to come up to a solution to assaults?
      But you didn’t do nothing-you did dismiss the assault, which, as I said, is the main reason for the above article being written. You said the woman writing this article, which was written in response to the fear and caution she feels as an international student in response to these attacks, was whinging and should go back to her own country if she doesn’t like the situation here.

      Again, you’re trying to pretend that all you’re saying is that “Local students do it tough”-which admittedly is what you’ve been saying in your most recent message. But your first message was “I paid too much money for a course, and so therefore International students afraid of being beaten up because of their background shouldn’t complain, because I paid too much money for a course, and that makes it so much worse!”

      “Shuting seemed to think the solution was understanding that Asian students aren’t rich, but I don’t think that is the solution. I don’t know what is though. What combats racial hate?”

      Well it’s a start. Why is understanding that Asian students aren’t rich not a help to prevent further targetting by thugs?
      Also-something that might help along, is if when someone complains about people who look like them being assaulted-DON’T CALL THEM WHINGERS! You pretend you can’t do anything-when you are actively making the situation worse by dismissing the assault, and calling someone who complains about it a whinger who should go back to their country-because apparently being beaten up in a train and not helped by anyone is so much easier than paying too much ofr a course.

      “At the end of the day I am more mad at the government than Shuting.”

      Cool-then where’s your article calling the Government a pack of whingers, and implying they should leave Australia for another country?

      “I think she had the potential to really make an impact for the international students with her article and it just fell so short of the mark.”

      Local student, how exactly would Shuting have written an article which you think would have made an impact for International Students? I put it to you that there was NO article in any reality that Shuting could have written that would have resulted in:

      A) A positive impact for international students
      B) You not calling her a whinger who should go back to her own country.

      If you’re not being swayed by the fear of assault, based on real assaults, I don’t see any article that could have been written in support of international students that would not end with you responding “They’re whinging!”
      Whereas is Shuting had wirrten an article stating “Local student paid too much for her course, and so that’s so much more important that the racial attacks against people who look like me”, I could see you cheering that message on, but don’t see how this would assist with International Students.

    • Local student, in the article there’s a bit of an indication that having your parents pay for the degree isn’t as “cushy” as you think:

      “But I also know many Asian students who work here in crappy jobs such as kitchen hands and supermarket shelf-stackers to support their study. Some of my friends don’t return home for holidays until graduation to save money, even though most of us Chinese students are precious only children.

      I am from a lower-middle-class family. My parents work in a hospital and spent half their life savings to educate me here. They don’t take annual leave and mostly work six days a week to support me. While we are better off than previous generations of our family who came from villages in the countryside, we don’t consider ourselves rich.”

      So-would you like that situation? Would you like to be in a situation where you can’t visit your parents until you’ve graduated because you can’t afford it, with your parents paying 6 days a week with no holidays in order to support you in University?

      Let me know if that is a situation you’d prefer to live in.

  11. I told you- I pay for these. I do a degree at Melbourne Uni. I think that is specific enough.

    Are you accusing me of racial hate because I didn’t like what Shuting wrote in her article?

    • So Local Student you pay FOR ALL The Degree (That you are not willing to mentioned) costs, books, food, accommodation etc etc with no help from no one? OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Also it is your problem not mine Local Student that you think by asking the following, I am accusing you of having racial hate.

      “One solution is not to whinge and to attack one International with opinions based on Urban Legends and The Media hey Local Student?”

      But hey if you want to answer a question with a question, it is your problem not mine.

      Best wishes for Uni, with what ever degree you are doing with research based not based on Urban Legends.

      • Oh god, your accusing him of racial hate, Fuck off .

        Self righteous lefty bastard lover of religious Nazis.

        Pompous asshole.

        • So we’re a lover of religious Nazis, and you’re an ally of actual Nazi supporters.

          You do realise that considering Darrin Hodges previous vocal support of Hitler, your statement about religious Nazis’, even if it weren’t idiotic, would be hypocritcal.

          Or do oyu think supporting Nazism is okay if you do it?

  12. Here:
    “I also get no help from the government” AND here:

    “Not only international students are doing it tough, that is all that I meant to say.
    I feel like our government doesn’t really care about it either.
    (This was highlighted with Ted Baillieu’s recent funding cut to TAFE courses).”

    • If Local Student have problems with The Government, why are they attacking one International Student?

      Could they use the resources of The Student Union?

    • Yes, Local student, you don’t get any help from the government-but have you actually asked for help? You’ve aready stated you didn’t look into healthcare cards, did you speak to your scholarship office at all?

      Because it seems like you’re complaining that another student has no right to “whinge” about being assaulted when you’re not getting any support…..when you’ve not been asking the right places for the supports that do exist!

      By the way, why so hesitant to say the degree? No one will be able to trace you-we’re just surprised that there is a degree that costs that much and has NO HECS or HELP places.

      And in relation to this:
      “Not only international students are doing it tough, that is all that I meant to say.”

      But again, that’s not what you said. You instead said this:

      “This article was a student getting a platform to whine about the things she doesn’t like about my country. If you don’t like it, Shuting, ….”

      Just to be clear again, things about Australia that Shuting in whinging about include….being assaulted because of the way they look.

      Local student, I think you know you said something really stupid, but you’re too proud to back down. This is not going to end well for anyone.

      So swallow your pride. Admit, you said something offensive and stupid about this author, and overexaggerated your feelings of “I get screwed over as a local student” to become “Why does anyone else get to complain about their problems, when I haven’t complained about mine yet?”

      It was childish, completely self-centred, and unable to actual consider the situation of other people. I think you’re realising that now. That’s why you’ve tried to change what you’re arguing about-but it’s not working. Your comments are still there for the world to see. So you really can either keep on arguing that, yes, paying too much for a course is so much harder than being afraid that you’ll be beaten up because of how you look and no one will help you; or you can apologise for your offensive statement, back down, and we can start agreeing about how the government is screwing over all students.

      • I’m with JM all the way, here. I don’t need to add to what JM has said coz it’s all been said perfectly well, but I just wanted to second it. 🙂

        • Needless to say I don’t hear one iota of the bastards on this blog talking about racist Asians. Or Adsian attacks on Australians.

          As usual it’s the poor widdle Asians.
          Piss off.

        • Feel free to start your own blog highlighting evidence of racism against non-Asians by Asians in Australia. Use examples found on social media.

          We’ve said on many occasions that we would publish such examples if anyone wanted to email them to us at theantibogan@gmail.com, but why let that get in the way of a typical whinge?

        • Grant, I’m listening. Where are the evidence of assaults by Asians on Australians?

          And to be clear-would that justify an unprovoked attack against two Asians on a train? IS your sense of justice really going to be “If someone with your skin colour harms me, then I’ll harm someone with youer skin colour”-how would that end in anything other that everyone fighting anyone?

          And things, just on this page, that you have ignored:

          1) You have said that since there are assaults all over the world, we shouldn’t worry about Asians being assaulted. Does that same criteria apply to rapes, as there have also been rapes all over the world?

          2) Do you think non-white people who rape should be charged harsher than white people who rape?

          3) And why so eager to find out the ethnicity of the perpetrators? After all, wouldn’t it be bad no matter who the thugs were? Or are you going to tell us right here and now that assaulting Asians is only a bad thing if you’re not a white guy doing it?”

          4) Grant, you find me an article in a major newspaper where the perpertrator was white, and we can tell by their photo, and the headline somewhere involves the words; “Caucasian” or “White” in their description. You do that, and prove that newspapers are quick to blame white people for everything.

          5) Pray tell, Grant, do you think all non-white migrants are liars? Which cultural groups are the most and least likely to lie for no reason?

          6) So…why are you angry when a fundamentalist Muslim government executes the homosexuals? You don’t care about do-gooders dying, your party members have already said they’re happy to kill children of do-gooders so the adults shouldn’t be the problem. So what reason do you have to complain about homosexuals being killed by Muslims when you’ve no interest in saving gays, and in fact, are probably glad they were killed?

          And of course, the legendary Grant v Grant debate:

          Grant 1 stated: “Muslims & other cultural enrichers pack rape white girls”

          Grant 2 countered: “There are assaults all over the world, all the time. So fucking what?”

          How do you reconcile these two contradictory beliefs?

          By the wya, while we’re at it, while on this page you’ve said that ISlam is a plague that will ruin Australia, and that the APP is not a whites only party. However, you have also complained about the following groups existing in Australian society:

          Africcans
          Asians
          All people wh look like they could be Muslims
          Homosexuals
          Anyone who disagrees with you politically.

          Grant-who exactly is left to stay in this country? And if the APP is not a racist party, and you support non-white migrants, who exactly do you support considering you hate anyone from Asia, Africa and the Middle East?

  13. Local Student is but one Student, as there are other students both Local and International who has to work jobs to help for The Degree and other costs.

  14. JM, I don’t think I said something stupid at all. If she doesn’t like the cost, she knows the cost before she comes. It is less than in America and most of Canada and less than in most of the UK. Tell her to go to Germany where the cost is significantly less for an international student. I guarantee that she will have more problems with racism there.

    I think you are just confused because she talks about two completely different issues. The cost of being an international student and racist attacks. You think because I dismissed her whinging about costs that I somehow dismiss racial attacks or think that she is whinging about racist attacks, which I don’t at all.

    I never thought about healthcare because of where I work. I get discounts.

    Let me challenge you, JM as you seem to spend so much time attacking me. Do you actually think the girl wrote a good article? Do you actually think that if the thugs in Sydney had known the guy wasn’t rich, than they would have not attacked him? In that case, why do you not see guys going over to Malvern to beat up the local rich kids? The nazi’s knew that lots of the Jews weren’t rich and that never stopped them.
    Complaining about costs was just that. I think it was a weak article focusing on the wrong things.

    ps. My Hong Kong friend warned me that organ harvesting had been reported in Hong Kong a lot lately when I was there and to watch out in Hong Kong and China. Initially I thought she was joking but her mum assured me that it had been in the local news a lot.

    And mindmadeup, can you read what I wrote so that I don’t have to repeat myself again please. I do not earn $60,000 per year ( way, way less). I saved for one year before the degree. Then you must know that paying ‘upfront’ means that you pay for the subjects you are doing that semester, each semester at the census date. (also this is over several years- my degree wasn’t just one year). So I continued to save through the holidays and then through the semester. I don’t work full time, I never said that. I work full time in the holidays and part time during semester, like most students.
    I meant to be the voice of local students so – I know others that have it tougher. Several people in my course have children, I know a newlywed who does two subjects while working full time – the people with kids get AUSTUDY I think and the newlywed earns quite a lot already but in terms of time, they have it much tougher than I.

    • “JM, I don’t think I said something stupid at all. If she doesn’t like the cost, she knows the cost before she comes.”

      Did you read the article, local student? It starts by complaining about the assaults on Chinese students, and ends on the assaults on Chinese students. The cost of the studies make up one line-and is all about pointing out that the students are not rich.

      “Tell her to go to Germany where the cost is significantly less for an international student. I guarantee that she will have more problems with racism there. ”

      Oh, so to be clear, it’s wrong for a student to complain abotu assautls in public which is causing fear for an entire community, if there’s some place where they’d be treated worse?

      So if I get beaten up in public, I shouldn’t complain because elsewhere I could have been stabbed?

      “I think you are just confused because she talks about two completely different issues. ”

      But they’re not! The Asian students were targetted because they were seen as rich. The article clearly shows that even if their paretns have paid for their course, this doesn’t make them rich, and that the international students are fearful that these violent attacks are just a blatant expression of the subtle fear that australia sees them as people who can be fleeced for their cash and thrown away.

      And I think you’re clearly confused about what the article was about. The article started with assaults and ended on assaults-the entire mention about course fees, rents and public transport makes up 7 sentences! You seem to have a problem with those few lines, for which you say she is whinging.

      “You think because I dismissed her whinging about costs that I somehow dismiss racial attacks or think that she is whinging about racist attacks, which I don’t at all.”

      Except you do! The article in the main is writing about racist attacks, and fear of racist attacks. You so far have:

      1) Compared very very real racist attacks, with an urban legend about tourists losing Organs in China.
      2) Said that the writer would have more problem with racism in another country, almost as if she’s not allowed to feel afraid of racist attacks in Australia.
      3) Ignored the many many paragraphs about racist attacks in Australia that the author complains about, then calls her whinging and tells her to go back to her coutnry if she doesn’t like it.

      You can’t say “I don’t dismiss this”-then dismiss it in the next sentence!

      “I never thought about healthcare because of where I work. I get discounts. ”

      Great-are these discounts international students get? No Medicare for International students by the way, and health care costs are at least twice the price of health insurance for Australian citizens?

      “Let me challenge you, JM as you seem to spend so much time attacking me.”

      How am I attacking you? You are saying offensive things about International students, seemingly saying they’ren ot allowed to complain because they’re not Australian. As a person who has both been assaulted, and is engaged to an international student-I do not like a person implying that you can only complain about your treatment if a) no one in the world has a worse situation than you, and b) you are an Australian. We all have the right to complain, even you.

      If you think someone challenging your views is an attack, you need to grow up.

      ” Do you actually think the girl wrote a good article?”

      Yes. She brought up issues that effected her and brought them to our attention in a well written way.
      Let me ask you, local student, how exactly would this author have written an article that would both provide support for itnernational students, and would not have resulted in you calling her a whinger?

      ” Do you actually think that if the thugs in Sydney had known the guy wasn’t rich, than they would have not attacked him? ”

      I can’t say. I’m not a thug. Chances are they still would have because itnernational students are easier targets (Less likely to complain to police for starters, less likely to have friends on the transport that could help them).

      Let me ask you, do you think your response of “Well, racism is worse in Germany” is actually helping anyone, or dismissing the very real assaults as small because there’s something worse overseas?

      “In that case, why do you not see guys going over to Malvern to beat up the local rich kids? The nazi’s knew that lots of the Jews weren’t rich and that never stopped them.”

      So how would you react? Your reaction so far is to say “Racism is worst overseas” and “Well, terrible things happen in your coutnry too”-how does that do anything but diminish the severity of the attacks?

      ” Complaining about costs was just that. I think it was a weak article focusing on the wrong things. ”

      She complained about costs in 7 sentences! 7 sentences in an article of 54 sentences!

      I think you’re the one focusing on the wrong things!

      “ps. My Hong Kong friend warned me that organ harvesting had been reported in Hong Kong a lot lately when I was there and to watch out in Hong Kong and China.”

      Yep, China has a problem with organ harvesting, partiocularly people selling their organs, or the selling of organs of executed prisoners. But you didn’t say that.

      You said that in China, tourists have their organs stolen when they go to toilets. Do you have any evidence of that? Otherwise, it’s incredibly offensive that the above story which has resulted in arrests is comparable to an urban legend.

      “I meant to be the voice of local students so – I know others that have it tougher. Several people in my course have children, I know a newlywed who does two subjects while working full time – the people with kids get AUSTUDY I think and the newlywed earns quite a lot already but in terms of time, they have it much tougher than I.”

      Great-be the voice of local students. Challenge the government that is making it tough for you. We’re all behind that 100%-hell we’ll join your rally if you start one.

      But let me ask you this, local student, where are you actually helping your cause at all? Going around saying “International students who complain are whingers because I have it tougher” does not help your case, because guess what, even if we agree that you absolutely have it worse than international students (Ignroing the fact you do have access to services International students don’t, and the fact I don’t see anyone dimissing an assault against you), there are people who have it tougher than you (The long term unemployed, Indigenous Australians, the mentally ill, the severely disabled) who, but your reckoning, should be allowed to say the following things:

      “You’re whinging-stop it!”
      “Well if you don’t like studying in Australia so much, you should go overseas where you’ll have far fewer supports”
      “You chose to study and pay that cost, so you don’t get to complain about it now”

      There’s always someone else worse off localstudent. You live in a first world coutnry where supports do exist to help you-lack of information mean you have not accessed them, sure, but they do exist. If you are seriously saying that people aren’t allowed to complain if there’s someone in a worse situation than them, then virtually no one would be allowed to complain, anywhere in the world.

    • If you want to be a voice for local students, here’s some suggestions to help you on your way:

      A) Join your local student union. They need the money, and Melbourne Student union is better than most. You also have a better chance to improve your situation.
      B) Contact your local member explaining your complaints about the situation you’re in. Failing that-contact a member from a minority party trying to appeal for the youth vote.
      C) Write a letter to your local paper, voicing your complaints.

      Please note a lack of “Tell international students to stop complaining because you think you have it harder than they” -as this will not help anyone.

      And here’s some stuff you have ignored:

      1)-“So-would you like that situation? Would you like to be in a situation where you can’t visit your parents until you’ve graduated because you can’t afford it, with your parents paying 6 days a week with no holidays in order to support you in University?

      Let me know if that is a situation you’d prefer to live in.”

      2)- where’s your article calling the Government a pack of whingers, and implying they should leave Australia for another country?

      3)-I put it to you that there was NO article in any reality that Shuting could have written that would have resulted in:

      A) A positive impact for international students
      B) You not calling her a whinger who should go back to her own country.

      4)-Here’s stories I’ve heard first hand of what parents have done in order to ensure their children get a good degree:

      -Choose a child to provide education for-can only afford to pay for a course for one student.
      -Get rid of all their savings reserved for retirement.
      -In one case, sell the famiyl business, and home, and move in with their adult children (Admittedly, that was a case of a family persecuted by the Taliban).

      It’s amazing what people will do in order to get their children are good education, isn’t it? Would you call any of the above decisions “easy”? Tell me right now, would you swap your position for any of the students listed above?

      Also, how exactly is the above author complaining about a course costs a whinger who should leave australia if she isn’t hpapy, but you complaining abotu your coruse costs makes you a voice for local students? Why aren’t you a whinger too?

      On a related note, you say you’re more mad about the government than you are about Shutung. Why are you mad at her at all? What has she done to you to make you mad at her?

      I am worried you honestly believe that people who come to Australia should not complain about anything, and just be grateful for everything, assaults and all, even if (in this case), the people are bringing a hell of a lot of money to our education system, and if we lost them, we’d lose most of our universities too!

      I don’t think you consciously believe that, and I hope that if you actually explored your thought pattern you would reject if not be horrified of the belief you are putting forward. But you need to do that for yourself. I’ll help you on the way though.

      Ask yourself: Why am I so mad at shutung writing an article complaining about the situation for international students? Why am I telling someone I have never met, who has not effected me in anyway that they are whinging and should leave Australia if they aren’t happy here?

  15. If I wrote the article I would have focused on adult monitoring for marginalised youths, especially those without parental support at home, harsher penalties for parents that fail to send their kids to school regularly and more TAFE courses, not less. Focusing on dealing with the issue of racial violence in the community would have been better than focusing on the cost of her degree.

    I will continue to think that many local students have it tougher than Shuting. I will continue to think that she has no cause to complain about the cost of her degree. I will continue to think that her article missed the mark on the issue of racial attacks completely.

    • “If I wrote the article I would have focused on adult monitoring for marginalised youths, especially those without parental support at home, harsher penalties for parents that fail to send their kids to school regularly and more TAFE courses, not less. ”

      So if you wrote the article about the treatment of international students in Australia…..it would not have been about itnernational students. That’s not what you said.

      “Focusing on dealing with the issue of racial violence in the community would have been better than focusing on the cost of her degree. ”

      So seven sentences in an article is a focus, and 40+ sentences about violence and fear is not a focus?

      “I will continue to think that many local students have it tougher than Shuting. ”

      And you are welcome to do so. I will also point otu that many local students have it tougher than you, and under your logic, if she is not allowed to complain because she has it better than you, then you should not be allowed to complain, because you too have it better than others.

      “I will continue to think that she has no cause to complain about the cost of her degree. ”

      And you are welcome to do so. And I will continue to ask why it is wrong for her to complain abotu the cost of her degree (In all 7 sentences of a 54 sentence article) when if you do it, it’s a sign that you are the voice of local students?

      “I will continue to think that her article missed the mark on the issue of racial attacks completely.”

      And I will continue to point out that you are focusing on 7 sentences in an article that talks about racial assaults at the beginning and end, and through most of the middle.

      And I will also point out that you can promote your cause, and your beliefs without attacking another, and going after a group that is being screwed over by the same government that is screwing over you benefits you none.

    • And I will continue to point out where you have ignored questions:

      1)-”So-would you like that situation? Would you like to be in a situation where you can’t visit your parents until you’ve graduated because you can’t afford it, with your parents paying 6 days a week with no holidays in order to support you in University?

      Let me know if that is a situation you’d prefer to live in.”

      2)- where’s your article calling the Government a pack of whingers, and implying they should leave Australia for another country?

      3)-I put it to you that there was NO article in any reality that Shuting could have written that would have resulted in:

      A) A positive impact for international students
      B) You not calling her a whinger who should go back to her own country.

      4)-Here’s stories I’ve heard first hand of what parents have done in order to ensure their children get a good degree:

      -Choose a child to provide education for-can only afford to pay for a course for one student.
      -Get rid of all their savings reserved for retirement.
      -In one case, sell the famiyl business, and home, and move in with their adult children (Admittedly, that was a case of a family persecuted by the Taliban).

      It’s amazing what people will do in order to get their children are good education, isn’t it? Would you call any of the above decisions “easy”? Tell me right now, would you swap your position for any of the students listed above?

      5)-Also, how exactly is the above author complaining about a course costs a whinger who should leave australia if she isn’t hpapy, but you complaining abotu your coruse costs makes you a voice for local students? Why aren’t you a whinger too?

      6)-On a related note, you say you’re more mad about the government than you are about Shutung. Why are you mad at her at all? What has she done to you to make you mad at her?

      7)-Ask yourself: Why am I so mad at shutung writing an article complaining about the situation for international students? Why am I telling someone I have never met, who has not effected me in anyway that they are whinging and should leave Australia if they aren’t happy here?

      8)-Oh, so to be clear, it’s wrong for a student to complain abotu assautls in public which is causing fear for an entire community, if there’s some place where they’d be treated worse?

      So if I get beaten up in public, I shouldn’t complain because elsewhere I could have been stabbed?

      9)-The article in the main is writing about racist attacks, and fear of racist attacks. You so far have:

      10) Compared very very real racist attacks, with an urban legend about tourists losing Organs in China.
      2) Said that the writer would have more problem with racism in another country, almost as if she’s not allowed to feel afraid of racist attacks in Australia.
      3) Ignored the many many paragraphs about racist attacks in Australia that the author complains about, then calls her whinging and tells her to go back to her coutnry if she doesn’t like it.

      You can’t say “I don’t dismiss this”-then dismiss it in the next sentence!

      11)-Let me ask you, local student, how exactly would this author have written an article that would both provide support for itnernational students, and would not have resulted in you calling her a whinger? (Sayign that if you wrote the article you would not write abotu international students entirely does not answer this question)

      12)-Let me ask you, do you think your response of “Well, racism is worse in Germany” is actually helping anyone, or dismissing the very real assaults as small because there’s something worse overseas?

      13)-You said that in China, tourists have their organs stolen when they go to toilets. Do you have any evidence of that?

    • I don’t see it as complaining about the cost of the degree, just saying that a person is not rich just because they’re Asian and that in many cases any money they do have goes to fees, transport and general living expenses.

      The fact that you work to pay your fees is admirable, but you have stated that if assistance was more readily available you would have jumped at it. If you have an issue with not being eligible for FEE-HELP then that’s possibly reasonable (although it’s hard to tell without understanding all the circumstances) but it’s not the fault or the problem of international students. Without international students, your fee burden would undoubtedly be even higher.

      I think you have painted yourself into a corner and you just don’t want to concede that you honed in on one aspect of the article that explained the background of Asian students and how and why they should not all be just grouped into this stereotype of being wealthy.

      You basically seem to think she doesn’t have the right to comment on the cost of things or the lack of student concessions because you are paying for your degree. Sorry, explain that logic?

  16. JM, you are just ranting now. You type too much to answer.

    If I wrote the article I would focus on the issue. The problem lies with violent behaviour in the community, that’s what I would focus on. I don’t think the SES of the victims is the real issue.

    She writes about money in 21 sentences. That’s a substantial point in the article. Yes, that was the part I took issue with. I wrote about how I would write about a racial attack and that I think she missed the mark.

    Ps. from the start I said I was told about the organ trade. It wasn’t foreigners, it was just a general problem in China when I visited. I never read that, my friend warned me that it had been in their news (cantonese) . (if it helps I was there end of 2008). But my point was that China is a scary place also. My friend is living in China at the moment and was warned about getting antibiotics that aren’t actually antibiotics, just sugar pills. Also a big problem in China. My point was that China ain’t the safest place either.

    Cara, she can complain all she likes but it didn’t tug on my heartstrings in the slightest. It’s not that expensive and she didn’t even work for it herself. If she had a cheaper option, she would probably jump on it as well.

    • Local so I guess no I know complaining about one International Student that is not based on facts, you won’t do anything about issues you have with The Government especially The Victoria Government cutting Funding to TAFE and you won’t even look at getting Concession Cards?

      PS So since you believe in something based on hearsay and news?

      I guess you won’t believe the following?

      http://www.snopes.com/horrors/robbery/kidney.asp

    • Local complained about having issues with Government especially The Victoria cutting TAFE Funding, but won’t do anything.

      Because she is too busy complaining about ONE International Student and being scare of organ trade based on hearsay and news?

    • “If I wrote the article I would focus on the issue. The problem lies with violent behaviour in the community, that’s what I would focus on. I don’t think the SES of the victims is the real issue.”

      And your response to the violent behaviour is to say “Well, it’s terrible, but terrible things happen in China too, so she has no right to feel afraid, and really racism is worse in Germany nayway, so what’s the matter”

      And again, the focus was on the violence. Here’s the exact process of the article.

      Description of violent attack—-> Effect of violent attack on the international student, particularly Chinese community—> Growing fear of violent attacks leading to students restricting their movements —–> Fear that the violent attack is a manifest action of what has been feared the Australians hvae been subtely believing for too long-that international students are to be fleeced and thrown away—> International students aren’t rich anyway (This is what you seem to think the entire article is about)—> We love Australia, but fear we are not welcomed.

      You seem to think that tiny section in the middle is the focus of the article.

      Local, I’ve asked you twice now how exactly you would write an article in a way that would create a positive effect for international students, yet wouldn’t result in you calling the writer a whinger. Your first attempt did not mention international students at all. Now your second attempt was saying it would be stating “Violence is bad”-and nothing more. How exactly would that stretch out to a full column?

      “She writes about money in 21 sentences. ”

      No-seven. She writes from the cost of the course, to the cost of rent. Before that she talks about what international students have brought to Australia-quite a bit in fact. After that she says what their families have had to do to support the students. Your complaint was not about her talking about money, but her “whinging” about the cost of things-that makes up 7 sentences only.

      For crying out loud-what does the headline read? Is it about the cost of living in Australia, or about living in fear?

      “It wasn’t foreigners, it was just a general problem in China when I visited.”

      So why were you afraid? Why were you talking about being afraid to go to isolated bathrooms for fear of the illegal organ trade if it wasn’t foreigners?

      And how is it in anyway comparable to a very real assault on international students in this country?

      “But my point was that China is a scary place also. ”

      And? So what? So if another country is scary people have no right to feel afraid in this country? Because that’s what you were implying-that as you think China is scarier than Australia, a Chinese student has no right to voice her fear in living in Australia, and should go back to her home country.

      Again, your argument seems to be “If place x is worse than place y, then people in place Y have no reason to complain”-which is ridiculous. If this is actually what you believe then people in Afghanistan or Pakistan would state you have no right to feel afraid in China, because they have much more right to be afraid in Pakistan (For starters-China doesn’t like have tourists killed-it hurts them financially. The Taliban have no such concerns).

      “Cara, she can complain all she likes but it didn’t tug on my heartstrings in the slightest.”

      Does anyone ever tug at your heart strings, Local student? It seems to be that unless something directly effects you, you don’t care at all, and in fact, either tell someone who isn’t you who is complaining that they’re a whinger, or try and dismiss their complaint because worse things happen overseas.

      As I’ve said, I’ve asked you to talk about how an international student would write an article promoting their needs in a way that wouldn’t result in you calling them a whinger. Funnily enough your first attempt did not mention international students at all-but only talked about issues that directly effected you.

      So does that what an international student need to do to get your emotional support-campaign for you and your needs without even attending to their own?

      ” It’s not that expensive and she didn’t even work for it herself. If she had a cheaper option, she would probably jump on it as well.”

      No, her parents paid for it. And as the article, and the cases I have presented to you show, parents sacrifice a lot for their children in order to get education. Again, here’s the, according to you, “cushy” ways international students get degrees in this country-let me know if any of them you’d prefer to take up than your current situation:

      1) Some of my friends don’t return home for holidays until graduation to save money, even though most of us Chinese students are precious only children.

      2) I am from a lower-middle-class family. My parents work in a hospital and spent half their life savings to educate me here. They don’t take annual leave and mostly work six days a week to support me.

      3) Parents may have to choose one of their children, only one, to have an education overseas.

      4) Parents spending all their retirement money on thier children’s education.

      5) Parents selling their business, and famiyl home, and moving in with adult children so their youngest child can attend a university overseas.

      Each of these cases is real. You think all of them are easy-well tell me, would you swap with anyone in the above situations? I’ve asked you this three time now-why have you failed to answer each time?

    • “If she had a cheaper option, she would probably jump on it as well.”

      Wait-and that’s a bad thing? So if the student could use a cheaper way to get her degree, that makes her a terrible person? She should be spending extra money so she can complain about spending too much money like you?

      And, for tradition’s sake, things you forgot to respond to:

      a) Also, how exactly is the above author complaining about a course costs a whinger who should leave australia if she isn’t hpapy, but you complaining abotu your coruse costs makes you a voice for local students? Why aren’t you a whinger too?

      B) On a related note, you say you’re more mad about the government than you are about Shutung. Why are you mad at her at all? What has she done to you to make you mad at her?

      C) Ask yourself: Why am I so mad at shutung writing an article complaining about the situation for international students? Why am I telling someone I have never met, who has not effected me in anyway that they are whinging and should leave Australia if they aren’t happy here?

      D) Oh, so to be clear, it’s wrong for a student to complain abotu assautls in public which is causing fear for an entire community, if there’s some place where they’d be treated worse?

      So if I get beaten up in public, I shouldn’t complain because elsewhere I could have been stabbed?

      E) Let me ask you, do you think your response of “Well, racism is worse in Germany” is actually helping anyone, or dismissing the very real assaults as small because there’s something worse overseas?

      And a final new one:
      F) Have you ever actually spoken to a real life international student? I ask because I thought once thye were all rich-then I met one. Actualyl sat down, talked to her about her needs, and guess what-I was wrong! I have never had to deal with the racism, the stress, the financial pressures, and the exploitation she had to deal with. And I’m absolutely sure, neither did you.

      I know for a fact that you have more benefits directed to you than an international student. I can name Medicare for starters, as well as health care cards and most scholarships. I know you don’t live in fear like international students do, fear of racism, fear of attacks. I doubt you’ve been exploited for work, or housing, being overcharged and underpaid, or not paid at all, because you know that you can complain about your situation to someone in charge, and expect a fair response.

      All of these are benefits you have, that international students do not. So someone wants to complain about the way they are being treated. And you see that as an attack on your rights as a local student? Why? Do you honestly believe if an international student gets more rights, you’ll get less? Can’t we all have an improved situation? Last time I checked, when one group gained more rights, such as women getting the vote, no one elsewhere lost any rights (Certainly no voting rights were taken away).

      Local student-I mean this sincerely, if you want to be a voice for local students you are going the wrong way about it. The most succesful workers’ unions don’t win anything by attacking other worker’s unions and calling them whingers-they succeed by working together to fight those iin charge.

      Do you honestly believe that if you call enough international students whingers for complaining about stuff, the State Government would say “Thanks for getting rid of them for us-here’s some money”? Has that ever worked in history?

    • My point, Local Student, is that I didn’t get the vibe that she was complaining. She noted that sometimes it feels like they’re getting ripped off, but then qualified that. And the rest of the time she was just explaining that not all Asian students are rich.

      I’d still like you to answer this: You basically seem to think she doesn’t have the right to comment on the cost of things or the lack of student concessions because you are paying for your degree. Sorry, explain that logic?

  17. Well complaining about ONE International Student, help you deal with the issues you have with Government, especially Victoria Government TAFE Funding cuts?

  18. JM, of course I have spoken to an international student! I am friends with many! I mentored two international students who are both undertaking masters who come from third world countries this semester. I also work with many (which means they are as poor as me!).

    I have also been an expat before. So I mean, it’s not new what you tell me about the struggles of no rights. But you aren’t a citizen so you have to deal with costs, no voting, no NHS, only working certain hours and leaving the country when your visa runs out. It’s annoying, but it’s also what you signed up for. If I didn’t like it then I could leave (and some did).

    I don’t think it’s a bad thing to go after a cheaper option for either local or international, that was in response to Carla’s comment. (she was like- I bet you would take HECS if you could, I was like- anyone would?)

    Again, I think you can complain about racial attacks and should- I think this article really missed the mark on this point though. I think that you can complain about paying $26,000 for a three-year degree and not getting concession but that won’t pull any heartstrings of local students paying more and working for it themselves.

    • “I am friends with many!”

      And if they complain about the cost of their course, their lack of rights, their unfair treatment by the organisations, health services and even the police of our country, do you tell them to stop whinging, or do you actually listen to their complaints?

      And have you started telling them they got a cushy role to come here, if their parents paid for it, so shouldn’t complain about any financial costs in Australia? Or do only students you’ve never met get that treatment?

      “But you aren’t a citizen so you have to deal with costs, no voting, no NHS, only working certain hours and leaving the country when your visa runs out. It’s annoying, but it’s also what you signed up for. If I didn’t like it then I could leave (and some did). ”

      So your statement is “I wasn’t happy about stuff, but just put up with it. So you should too! And I’m angry at your for complaining about stuff I didn’t like, but didn’t complain about it”

      “I think that you can complain about paying $26,000 for a three-year degree and not getting concession but that won’t pull any heartstrings of local students paying more and working for it themselves.”

      So, we’re back to the start again. Why is it that an international student who mentions once about the cost of her course is a whinger, but you doing it many many times makes you a voice for local students?

      And again, the story was focused on the assaults-a total of seven lines talk about financial pressure on international students. You can’t just turn around and pretend the whole article was “We spend too much money” when

      A) Financial pressures on international students are barely mentioned

      B) Your argument seems to be “Some people have it tougher, so these people shouldn’t complain” even though this argument can be used to silence any and all opposition as there’s always someone worse off than you.
      And, most of all:

      C) the assaults, which the article was mostly about, you have already responded to in the following ways:

      – Saying they shouldn’t be worried because most of inner city Melbourne is Asian anyway, even though the article clearly states that the reasons Asians keep to the inner city is for fear of assaults in the outer suburbs.

      -Saying that if they don’t like it they should go to Germany where the racism would be much worse (Which somehow to you makes the racism in Australia better somehow).

      -Repeatedly ignoring mentioning of the assaults with statements such as “I don’t know how to do anything about that”

      -Saying that you’ve heard of stories of organ stealing in China, so the students shoudln’t be worried about actual assaults in Australia, because you’ve heard of some urgan myths in China which are scarier too you.

      This is the problem. You may like to pretend you didn’t diminish the assaults, but you did! Repeatedly! And then you tried to rewrite the article to be all about financial pressures when the’yre barely mentioned so that you don’t lose face.

      Go-go talk to your international student friends. Show them what you’ve written here, especially the first comment. Would they agree with your comments, do you think?

    • Maybe Local Student should show her rants to the international student she claim they spoke to, the many International Students she claims she are friends with, the other two they claim they mentored and the many International Students she claim she also work with.

      And then tell us their reactions to her rants?

      Oh 2nd thoughts better not, as we wouldn’t know it was the truth?

      PS NHS???? Doctors???? As doesn’t The UK and not Australia has NHS or National Health Service?

      • One of my international friends went on a little rant of her own in response to the article. She wasn’t impressed.

        • Local Student if you are in fact a Uni Student.

          You would know research helps, especially to see what you claim is known as hearsay.

          But if what you claim is the truth.

          Then WOW, one of your “international friends”?

          I thought you know more then one International Students?

        • Not what I asked. Did she read oyur response where you said that this international student is whinging, dismissed the assaults because A) “I don’t know how to solve them” and B) “Racism is worse in Germany” and C) “Well, there’s urban legends about China which are just as bad as any actual real assaults happening in Australia”?

          And what did she say exactly? Was she happy that you called someone mentioned the cost of her course a whinger, yet when you do it very frequently you call yourself a “Voice for the student”? Was she happy to hear that you think sutdnets who complain should leave the country?

          Or did you just show her the article, tell her what you thought of it, and waited for her to agree with you?

    • And what you ignored:

      A) On a related note, you say you’re more mad about the government than you are about Shutung. Why are you mad at her at all? What has she done to you to make you mad at her?

      B) Ask yourself: Why am I so mad at shutung writing an article complaining about the situation for international students? Why am I telling someone I have never met, who has not effected me in anyway that they are whinging and should leave Australia if they aren’t happy here?

      C) Oh, so to be clear, it’s wrong for a student to complain abotu assautls in public which is causing fear for an entire community, if there’s some place where they’d be treated worse?

      So if I get beaten up in public, I shouldn’t complain because elsewhere I could have been stabbed?

      D) Let me ask you, do you think your response of “Well, racism is worse in Germany” is actually helping anyone, or dismissing the very real assaults as small because there’s something worse overseas?

    • What is wrong with Local Student, do they think ALL local students are paying more and working for it themselves and not one local student is studying using HECS and what is other local students opinion that unlike Local Students rants is based on facts?

      But if they read their own comments “that you can complain about paying $26,000 for a three-year degree and not getting concession” they know International Students are paying more for studying with other extra costs like transport with no concession.

    • No NHS? So it was the UK? Hmmm. How do you mean, no NHS? Australia has a reciprocal health agreement with the UK, you don’t need to pay National Insurance to get free healthcare. You just walk in and show your passport, they still don’t charge you. I know life can be somewhat tough on a low wage in the UK, but really, what you can get by on there is quite astounding. You can, if you’re not fussy (lol) eat for about 20 quid a week over there. And buy your basic staples clothing-wise for 20-30 quid per quarter. Usually still leaves plenty of money for 2-3 pound drinks at bars in student areas… depending on your rent according to where you live and in what living situation.

      I’ve lived abroad too, hand to mouth, week to week. I’ve studied abroad, even did so as a teenager – and earned a chunk of the money to get me there, and my parents went without a lot to get together the rest, so I could have the experience. I’ve also lived here and paid my way for study. So our experiences seem relatively similar. The main difference? I’m not butthurt about this girl’s article, or the points she raised simply to highlight that Asian students are not all rich.

      Also re your comments on the $26k thing, different degrees cost different amounts. It’s likely more than local students doing the same degree are paying. You can’t be butthurt if you’re comparing apples with oranges.

      Still waiting on a response to this:

      You basically seem to think she doesn’t have the right to comment on the cost of things or the lack of student concessions because you are paying for your degree. Sorry, explain that logic?

  19. JM, the reason I don’t answer the swap question is- what does it have to do with the article? She didn’t write that. Maybe you should show these to Shuting? Show her that her situation is not so bad?

    • Local student-you obviously haven’t read the article.

      The first two cases I dexribed are actually from Shuting’s article-the second actually describes what her own parents have done in order to allow her to study in Australia

      So I repeat:
      1) Some of my friends don’t return home for holidays until graduation to save money, even though most of us Chinese students are precious only children.

      2) I am from a lower-middle-class family. My parents work in a hospital and spent half their life savings to educate me here. They don’t take annual leave and mostly work six days a week to support me.

      3) Parents may have to choose one of their children, only one, to have an education overseas.

      4) Parents spending all their retirement money on thier children’s education.

      5) Parents selling their business, and famiyl home, and moving in with adult children so their youngest child can attend a university overseas.

      Each of these cases is real. You think all of them are easy-well tell me, would you swap with anyone in the above situations? I’ve asked you this three time now-why have you failed to answer each time?

      • The first two case examples are from the third and fourth last paragraphs of the above article. So yes, Shutung did write them. The remaining four are from my own experience working with, and meetin international students.

        You like to say that as her parents paid for her course, Shutung got any easy path. My question to you pointed out the so called “easy” path to being a student, and asked would you be happy to swap places with either of the cases above.

    • Great Uni education Local Students is doing, thinking an International Student doesn’t have it so bad based on one article?

      Now how would they go with doing research?

  20. I think Shuting has it easy. I did the first when I was an expat, it was hard but I did it. It’s super hard when a member of the family dies and you can’t be there.
    The second I do already but for myself. I got to work three days and uni three days. Then I work full time in the holidays. Again, $26,000 for a three year degree is not that bad comparatively. If I went to UK, Canada, US, I would expect to pay more. I don’t really understand why the government would drop the cost as it isn’t high by international standards and they have no vested interest in Shuting’s education.

    But on top of that she didn’t write a good article. I would have written an article to actually make a change to combating violence in the community. The solutions I would be aiming for would actually help lower violence in Melbourne. This article achieved nothing- there was nothing new in it. International student fear racial attacks and aren’t rich? This isn’t news. It’s better to focus on a solution.

    • “I think Shuting has it easy”, “I would have written an article to actually make a change to combating violence in the community” but no link to the article and other claims? zzzzzzzzz

      News Flash for Local Student:

      Just because you claim it doesn’t mean it is the truth.

      And another News Flash for Local Student, there are other Local Students working and studying and studying using HECS.

      • Local Student so do you mine, not replying as I got better things to do then read your rants especially claiming you have issues with The Government and TAFE Funding cuts, but attacking one International Student based on false claims, emotions and Urban Legends and not facts.

        PS Don’t worry I won’t charge you for doing your research for you in getting the links.

    • “I would have written an article to actually make a change to combating violence in the community.”

      How? You’ve already said when we pointed out that you were dismissing the violence that “I don’t know how to solve it”-so your article would be what exactly: “Violence is bad-don’t know what to do about it, the end” (Closely followed by “And anyway, the violence is worse in Germany, so whatcha complaining about”)

      ” The solutions I would be aiming for would actually help lower violence in Melbourne. ”

      But, again, you’ve already stated you have no idea how to stop violence in Melbourne. Neither do I . Neither I expect does the author of the above article.

      So again, your article would be “Violence is bad-no idea how to fix it. The end”

      “This article achieved nothing- there was nothing new in it. International student fear racial attacks and aren’t rich? This isn’t news. It’s better to focus on a solution.”

      What solution? And so far your article is “Local students have it tough, violence is wrong”-hate to break it to you, local student, neither of those comments are new either.

      What this article did was highlight how international students do not have an easy run for it, and demonstrate the fear that is being felt in their community. It has people talking. So far it is achieving far more than your own goal of “Improve situation for local students, but calling international students who complain about assaults whingers”

    • “I think Shuting has it easy. I did the first when I was an expat, it was hard but I did it.”

      So….being separated from your family over holidays is hard when you do it, but if an international student does it, they have it easy?

      “The second I do already but for myself. I got to work three days and uni three days. Then I work full time in the holidays.”

      That’s not what the second one was. The second one was that her parents work 6 days a week with no annual leave to pay for her education.
      Would you like that situation for your parents, if you could? Would that result in a happier situation for you?

  21. And I guess from all this, Local Student doesn’t believe in backing up claims with facts, doesn’t want to answer questions as they scare of reality, has issues with The Government but does nothing about it, doesn’t want to do research or doesn’t know how to and believes in Urban Legends?

    • RH, I may not agree with Local Student but I don’t think snipey comments like that are conducive to adult discussion.

  22. Local Student permalink
    May 14, 2012 9:57 pm
    I go to the the University of Melbourne, the same uni as Shuting Dong. I am a local student but my degree cost more than hers and I also get no help from the government.

    Local Student permalink
    May 15, 2012 4:00 pm
    My course cost $30,000 upfront, I paid for it and I am not eligible for concession.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    LOCAL STUDENT – PLEASE RIDDLE ME THIS:

    WHAT COURSE COSTS $30,000 UPFRONT?

    I WISH TO KNOW.

    THAT IS ALL.

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