Below are comments from real Australians, most of whom would never have even met a refugee. And if they had, they wouldn’t even know it. Refugees/Asylum seekers are real people with families, fleeing countries for fear of violence and persecution. They do not have the luxury of browsing the Internet in their lounge rooms with a cup of coffee, checking out idyllic places to casually move their families. They can’t simply pop down to the post office/immigration office and say that they were thinking of leaving the country. The situation in various parts of the world is not too dissimilar to the regime of the Nazis. The role played by people smugglers is not too dissimilar to the Germans who housed and protected fleeing Jews, the only difference being the fact that they are charging money for the very fact that they themselves are risking their own lives to help others. And rather than show any form of compassion to these people, these survivors, who have pooled all of their belongings just to finance a chance to get one or two family members onto a boat that might not even make it out of the country, Australians are laughing at their plight and demanding that they be shot and killed, and left to drown in icy waters. Imagine if it was a boatload of horses… Racist Aussies tend to feel better about their racism by identifying with a balancing humanity cause, such as being anti-animal cruelty, or anti-child abuse. And their excuse for being so cold-hearted in their demands for human casualties? Apparently all of the people in the boats are terrorists. Ignoring the fact that terrorists are generally people with money, contacts and plane tickets, and that over 90% of Asylum seekers are found to be genuinely fleeing inhumanity, some Australians refuse to give a shit.
And while it seems to be perfectly acceptable to demand that boat people are killed, I would find it perfectly acceptable that these people who voice these opinions are locked up, as they are dangerous minded individuals – many of whom in charge of raising children. Absolutely fucking disgusting.
Please refrain from punching your computer screen when you get to the bottom of these comments. The sad thing is that this isn’t even the tip of the iceberg. Not even close. Theantibogan files are overflowing in the thousands from screenshots captured and emails from concerned citizens around Australia.
Sorry you had to see this. Regretful that this isn’t even the tip of the iceberg.
you said it... 
Oh. My. God. Do these inorant twits really exist? It frightens me that there were a few profile pics with kids in them. Are these people really raising children? What hateful, oblivious and downright scary ‘people’. I think we should send them overseas and repopulate with immigrants if this is the best gene pool we have to offer. I’m truly astounded.
It’s a well known fact that stupid bogans have clown car vaginas. They pop out kids and push prams around all year long. They collect the baby bonuses and then raise their kids to be bogans.
Clown car vaginas?
That is hilarious! So true ha ha
Well Olivia the time line suggest that these kids that you talk about have parents that were in their adolescence when the first asylum seekers came here from Vietnam and like good a humane country that we are, we accepted them all and what did they contribute to our country that made the parents let their kids become like this, well heroin for a start till the government made a concerted effort to clean the cabarramatta heroin trade up. Oh and that is right the only political assassination in Australia history by the killing of Mr Newman by FucNU! One of the taxpayers guest at Goulburn super-max!
I like to your mentality of hiding away what offends you, with you comment of deportation of people that want to express free speech in this country.
Have you ever actually met one of our Vietnamese born Australians? Get out and open your eyes for christ’s sake. Anyone bar a few totally clouded in ignorance can see the wonderful contribution to this country and our culture that these wonderful people have made over a good 20-30+ years now.
I don’t even know why I’m replying to such an ignorant racist fuck…
WRONG
The first asylum seekers were the Jews who came here in the 30s fleeing Nazi Germany. No doubt your xenophobes would have found some excuse to refuse them shelter.
In fact people very much like you actually did. Australia could have taken far more Jewish refugees than it did had the conservative governments not feared them as “foreign” and “strange”.
Well said Josh. Even many of the German settlers to SA in the early 1800s were fleeing religious persecution.
Oh and rtwoi, the comments we see in the article above are not “expressing free speech”, they are inciting racial violence and hatred, and they are illegal in this country.
You fail. Now go away.
ignorant twit are you for real we have refugee raping and killing here in australia ,im not racist by any means and im not from a small town ,these so called refugees are not political refugees or from war torn areas ,there all rich ,or have save to get a boat to come here ,they chuck there passports away so to make it harder to determine who they are , if you read my comment properly ,it states this ,tow the illegal boats back to there ports ,then un load the passengers ,then shoot the crew ,the smugglers ,1st lot shot no more would even think of gracing a boat to australia,,if you want our stunning land to be turned into an unknown land for your children and your grand kids ,take the view your taking ,i wont sit back and have them tell my 3x daughters they have to wear burq,as ,really Australia wake up ,because it is almost to late!
these so called refugees are not political refugees or from war torn areas ,there all rich
Evidence? Or GTFO
they have to wear burq
ROFL. You’re the only berk round here
Learn to write English before you come over here.
“gnorant twit are you for real we have refugee raping and killing here in australi”
Are there more cases of refugees involved in rape than say, Australian born males?
“these so called refugees are not political refugees or from war torn areas ,”
So….you’re telling me that Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and IRan (The main source of boat arrivals) are perfect images of peace that no one will ever want to live? Is that right?
Then naturally, you’ll have a holiday in each of these areas, right? Bring your wife and kids?
“there all rich ,or have save to get a boat to come here ”
So let me get this straight: if you are rich, or able to save money, you will never have a reason to flee for your life? So when the Jews fled the Nazis in the lead up to WWII, as most Jews in Germany and Austria did, you’re telling me they were all false refugees and should be sent back to Germany? Is that right?
Or are refugees allowed to be rich if they’re white?
To give another example-if you’re a Pahstun who owns your own business in the border region of Pakistan, which the Taliban is invading, please tell me how having oyur own business will stop the Taliban from kidnapping you.
“it states this ,tow the illegal boats back to there ports ,”
Indonesia has already said it won’t accept the boats.
“then un load the passengers ,then shoot the crew ,the smugglers ”
So, not only are we going to force a boat back to a country that won’t accept it, we’ll then get our troops onto foreign soil and start shooting people without trial? Do you know about war much? Because you just started one!
Interesting that you’re not shooting the asylum seekers. IS this your atempt to be humane? But you already told us you think they’re all rapist and murderers, right, so why the sympathy?
“,1st lot shot no more would even think of gracing a boat to australia,,”
Except that the people smugglers, the ones who organise all this, aren’t on the boats. So they don’t really lose anything out of this (They’ve already got the money, and even worse, they can now charge the asylum seekers another cost for the boat), they’ve lost some workers, that’s it, but these people smugglers ddn’t have the highest regard for human life.
So your solution is start a war with Indonesia, by shooting mostly illiterate and uneducated Indonesian fishermen who were bribed to take the boat-and this will solve the asylum seeker problem, right?
“if you want our stunning land to be turned into an unknown land for your children and your grand kids ,”
Every generation has said “Those new people are going to turn Australia into not’our’country”-yet still we are here. Are you telling us that somehow Australia has changed into an unknown land by the European migrants, or SE Asian migrants, or are you just trying to tell us that unlike all other migrant groups, Muslims are capable of changing Australia in a way that means it will never be recognised?
We’ve had Muslims in Australia for over a hundred years, how has Australia been changed beyond recognition by then?
“take the view your taking ,i wont sit back and have them tell my 3x daughters they have to wear burq,as ,really Australia wake up ,because it is almost to late!”
How many burqas have you actually seen, in your life? I mean, I work with a lot of Muslims, and I can count the number of burqas on one hand.
Also, how many Muslims have ever forced Australian to wear a burqa, or any headscarfs?
So, to summarise, you’re not a racist idiot, you’re just a guy who thinks all asylum seekers are rapist murderers, and you want to start a war with Indonesia but shooting the fall guys for people smugglers, to stop Muslims, who have been in Australia for over a century, from suddenly trying to destroy Australia, and force all women to wear burqas, even though most Muslims don’t wear burqas. Have I got it right?
That is fucking disgusting. I’m sorry for swearing but that is the worst thing I’ve read.
I’m so angry now I’m shaking. Fucking pricks these rasict nationalist scum are.
Can’t even tell the difference between ‘their’, ‘there’ and ‘they’re’. Fantastic people to have in our country.
Stupid, filthy, rotten fucks. They are (they’re)the reason I could support forced/mandatory birth control. These people shouldn’t breed.
I agree with you Karni about it being disgusting. It is repulsive and hard to handle that we share our nation’s resources with people with such small minds.
I know you are probably tongue in cheek when you say ‘These people shouldn’t breed’ however I think that is a dangerous comment, which buys into the whole ‘us vs them’ mentality. That is the mentality sites like this are trying to avoid (in racist bogans vs boat people, for example).
I have read a few comments of a similar vein on ‘Things Bogans like’ and although I agree with the intent, we must be careful not to be elitist.
Remember – people think a certain way due largely to their upbringing. We must be vigilant in keeping our own minds open. Education, time and preventing Tony Abbott from becoming Prime Minister.
Very well said matilda86!
The first person with intelligence that I agree with on this thread. An intelligent person doesn’t have to portray themselves as elitist, that comes with public accolades and achievements in ones life and yes a proper parental upbringing. I think Australians have lost the prospective of our nation in the last 20 years and the moral values that were instilled with us by our family life styles.
Have you ever walked down the main street of any city in the past and acknowledge the person walking past you? I have, I have nothing against all peoples on this earth.
However, I can’t stand by and see others vilified like the ANTIGROGAN has done to one poor individual.
Good stuff Karni a bigot in you’re own right by suggesting birth control and your use of profanities to express your opinions is the lowest form of wit.
I have never seen the four letter word used so much for so little.
Oh suddenly our racism apologist is offended by the F bomb? Why don’t you take a look through the fucking archives pal? Have you seen how many of your ilk use obscene language when illustrating their contempt for people that are different to them? Find one antibogan post that doesn’t have the featured bogan swearing like a builder.
There is a saying ANTIGROGAN ” the world might think you are a fool but when you open your mouth you leave no doubt”! Profanities and obscene articulation are the traits of imbeciles.
“The world might think you are a fool but when you open your mouth you leave no doubt.”
Just like when you said that asylum seekers were okay, but that boat people weren’t. Or when you came here ignoring hundreds of racists and defending just one by calling us racist because the one you were defending was of ‘Asian decent (sic)’.
You have just confirmed the argument that the hate filled bogans and bigots and xenophobes on here are imbeciles. Well done, now you know what others already knew! As evidenced by the liberal use of profanity in all of their posts and responses to challenges on this forum.
I believe the point being made is that you are a hypocrite. I thought it was rather obvious, but there’s nothing wrong with needing to have things pointed out to you once in a while, not everyone could be in the top, or mainstream, class.
looks like all of you are a tad out of touch with the variety of social groups surrounding you.
Who’s out of touch…?
may be the boat people should be used as slave labour we could save on green house gases (no fuel drinking harvester)and have them pick cotton then if they still want to come we could teach them to sing and live happily on plantations
As the Antibogan says, that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
No doubt these clowns think the Holocaust, the KKK lynchings and the Myall Creek Massacre were merely “expressions of opinion”.
the boat people well we cant support them all, there be standing room only left.It would be better to make life for them in there own countries safe ect but this cant happen till the countries who make the guns ect stop sending them to these poor people who are afraid to live in there own houses because of wars caused by the churches and gun manufactures their the one we should be blowing up
Yeah…damn all those other countries that export weapons…These people all just want to come here, leave their communities, family, birth country because they want to come and take our jobs….I was thinking only the other day how much fun it would be for myself and my kids, what sort of adventurous spirit it would imbue, for us to sell everything we own and pay a dodgy smuggler to jump on a boat and try to get to another country because it was getting a bit uncomfortable living here. I was really hoping to get somewhere with a cooler climate, actually. The heat is getting to me. The funnest bit will be seeing who lives through it! I can’t wait – it will be like playing Survivor for real! I wonder who will get voted off the island?
Worst of it is only 1 bloke telling them off. And 1 possibly sarcastic comment.
It amazes me there are people who feel this way.
Well Lara get over it, “the amazed phase” because there is more to come as the years past by.
PC has already made the Rudd government do a back flip on the asylum seeker issue with a six month suspension of visas from Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.
Maybe they have been told this is the best place to live on earth. I ask you this question: Is there a seaport in Kabul? No these peoples travel through several countries that would gladly accept them as new citizens but NO they come all the way here to Australia for the benefits that we all take for granted.
The sri Lankains are another issue that amazes me, it is just an half days boat ride to India but NO they have to travel right across the indian ocean to get to here. Does this make sense? Why not Indonesia?
Not to the poor husband that goes to work 40-50 hours a week to support his wife and children then also pay off his mortgage and pay his taxes.
I would be the first person to help someone in need of a feed and a place to stay, but I reject persons that want to abuse that privilege.
https://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/debunking-myths-about-refugees-and-asylum-seekers/ .
These people are calling for cold blooded murder. This should be forwarded to AHRC and Commissioner Graeme Innes.
I agree with your comment Zoe. Personally I wouldn’t waste my time posting on FOWF and especially that certain thread. But I find some of the comments on this page not much better. I think sensationalism is what feeds the ANTIGROGAN’S persona. What he thrives off is what might be considered as a form of sexual gratification. He certainly likes posting pictures of poor defenseless young women. That have to say please please give me my photo back.
As yet I haven’t seen the ANTIGROGAN post pictures of male individual involved with this matter.
One ponders that reason…
here you go RTWOI:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001035163651#!/photo.php?pid=25069&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=74422139659&aid=-1&id=100001035163651
Yeah…because that’s what’s the Navy is all about. Spending their time and resources on blowing up frightened and weary refugees.
Good one dickheads, I’m sure your idiotic suggestions will be taken on board.
The commments are a good example of the bully in operation. If confronted, on their own, they would simply run off. As a group they draw power from one another – the mob mentality. An, no, these comments aren’t just from the realm of bogansville – there are many many so called educated people, upper middle class etc who feel exactly the same way as this lot!
Sorry, but you need to break up all those hate examples. It takes so long to get to the rational ideas that many casual observers won’t make it. Even I thought after a page or two I’d stumbled onto an anti-immigration page. The depth of ignorance is huge, but instead of showing pages of the same (badly misspelled) frothing, education needs to come in before you lose casual viewers.
Just my $0.02
😀 avid
Good point. I’ll try and edit that now.
I believe that we, as Australians have a right to free speach but bloody hell. The only thing that comes to mind here is immaturity and ignorance!
I believe that Australia is full right now as the stats are saying, but really. This is a joke. SHutting our gates to these people who are illegal is the only way to stop it.
AUstralia is a multicultiral country anyway. Think about how the Aboriginals felt when the English settlers came in! None of us would be here if they thought like the above people thought!
I am absolutely disgusted on how people think these days!
Asylum seekers are not illegal. NOT ILLEGAL.
That is right asylum seekers are not illegal under signed UN laws which Australia signed and have every right to come here and settle and contribute to our nation like so many refugees have in the past. However boat people and cue jumpers are deemed to be illegal and under UN laws have to be identified who exactly they are and that they are not actually economic refugees, terrorists or criminals.
There is a plethora of arguments of for and against immigration. But there is basic facts that the powers to be have not taken into consideration is that the country is predominantly a dry continent. Water is a big issue and I see no one coming forward and fixing this matter to justify more immigration.
You are too stupid for words. Asylum seekers are okay but boat people are not? What University did you go to? And what was you degree? Bachelor of Garbology?
So under your judgment “The ANTIGROGAN” judgment.
I suggest that you would allow asylum seekers here with just their word to say they are not wanted for crimes of rape and murder in the country of their origin.
So “The ANTIGROGAN” what sort of education have you acquired. I might suggest “The head in the ground diploma”? I am sorry but I can’t justify suggesting a bachelor degree to you as you are creator of a discriminating website.
You’re mother would be ashamed of you stealing a young girl’s picture and then making them plead to get the said picture back.
Read the article again. The right to come to Australia and seek Asylum has been protected by international law that Australia signed up to over 50 years ago, get with the times!! The Antibogan already said it but I’m compelled to say it again: Asylum seekers are NOT illegal. What does it take to get this message through to people??
Your talk of Australia being full leads me to believe you are totally ignorant of the true scale of boat people coming here. Australia recieves such a tiny fraction of refugees, it pales into insignificance. European countries with comparable populations to us, and much, much less area recieve many times more than us and cope fine. Besides, if you’re worried about the country being full, why do you not direct your attention to the number of European immigrants who outstay their visas, the number of which is many, many, many times over the number of ‘boat people’?
Free speech aside, inciting violence, murder and racial hate is never okay and not legal in this country.
Every point you have expressed JaydenC is correct and to elaborate more on the issue of world wide immigration in per populace status. Australia has agreed to 1.4% of the gross population per year, which is 4334 persons. That is asylum seekers, not economic refugees and of other types of immigration. Australia ranks 20 out of a hundred countries that signed this treat 50 years ago.
However the past 12 months the UN has reviewed certain countries and have deemed them to be safe and therefore not points of conflict. Which has been reflected in the announcement of suspensions of visas form several countries.
Your last paragraph is true too. there is no place in a civil society for hatred and violence. So why is it happening why are you people so worried about the posts of these people that have no relevance to the big picture of life here is Australia.
I think you know as an intelligent person that this issue of asylum seekers is not going away and either is the matter of peoples that will always object.
I have a saying that never fails: “Time tells all”
You actually fair dinkum believe that Afghanistan and Sri Lanka are safe for Hazaras and Tamils??
Oh dear…
Why are we worried about the posts of these inhumane freaks?? Uhh have you seen some of their threats of violence and murder? Have you heard of the ‘group think’ concept? It’s dangerous, and they need to be exposed.
Yes, it’s something I’ve started noticing myself, that many (not all of course) people who are anti-animal cruelty are often extremely racist in their sentiments.
I was wondering, who are the anti-animal cruelty racists you refer to? I think I may have missed something here.
I am part of the growing (mm somewhat slow growing) anti-animal abuse movement (aka animal rights)and one thing I have noticed is that many of these well intentioned people are extremely racist towards their own lot (humans that is). It is rather odd that a person can be so pro animal rights and yet so anti human rights (only some are like this, not all). Sadly it seems we are often afflicted by ‘tunnel vision’.
So true. Impossible to understand that these people will endorse killing refugees on one hand, and then oppose caged chickens in the next swift motion, pausing only to push more steak meat pie into their stupid mouths.
Dude how can’t you find that shit amusing? The ignorance, the inadequate level of intelligence. I’ve been trolling cunts as ‘Hu Flung Dung’. It’s a minefield of idiots waiting to be humiliated
It is really disappointing that people would be so unashamed to post these things publicly on the internet.
But karma always seems to work its way back somehow when their bosses and work associates see them!
Caroline – So true about the anti-cruelty racists!
As with Caroline: I was wondering, who are the anti-animal cruelty racists you refer to? I think I may have missed something here.
The comment was made that racists tend to pick another noble cause to join, in some kind of ‘balancing’ mechanism that seeks to make them better people. While it’s one thing to demand that boat people are murdered and left to drown, and that all Muslims should be bombed, it’s another thing to defend animal rights or denounce pedophiles.
It’s kind of like eating a shitload of chocolate and then thinking that eating a few apples and bananas will somehow cancel out the negatives.
Hence the title, anti-animal cruelty racists.
Oh, okay.
Personally, I’ve never come across any sincere racists in all my years involved with the animal liberation movement.
Then again, I’ve found that most people who are anti-animal cruelty are happily omnivorous.
Thanks for the clarification antibogan.
I’ve often heard this kind of sentiment in partnership with “they should go through the legal channels!” and I suspect the utterer has never had even a slight bit of contact with “the legal channels”. It’s mind-boggling enough to navigate for an English-speaking person who isn’t under time pressure. I can’t imagine navigating immigration red tape when my life or the lives of those I love are at stake.
What the fuck happened to compassion? All the Australian “fair go” values I bet these knobsticks would spout in a heartbeat and it means bugger all.
They think this way in large part because our corporate-owned media pushes a rabid, anti-intellectual, increasingly nativist/nationalist agenda.
This doesn’t for a single second excuse any of these fuckers, but the problem starts with Bolt, Ackerman, Alan Jones, ACA & T/T. They totally legitimise this shit, and create ‘hysteria’ where there is none.
Andrew Bolt is an insufferable cunt, but he’s not completely stupid (which is all the more sinister)… he knows damn well that the only way he’s ever going to ‘win’ this argument is to separate it totally from any kind of empirical standard… because it never was about ‘the boats’. It was always about half-baked racist tribalism…. this is merely an excuse to attempt to apologise for it, and call it your ‘opinion’ on the issue.
http://refugeeactioncoalitionsydney.wordpress.com/fact-sheets/
We respond to the idiocy captured and displayed here by antibogan with figures, facts, legal advise, reference to precedent, history, context, appeals to our shared humanity…
They respond with venomous chickenhawkery… babbling, paranoid incoherence that in no way presents even the vaguest hint of any kind of understanding.
Once you abandon reality, you’re free to ‘argue’ whatever the fuck your narrow little mind wanted to in the first place. Most of them probably don’t even understand the profound stupidity of their so called ‘position’.
It’s not about actually discussing the issue, or wanting to propose a real solution… it’s about… no darkies!
And Howard, Bolt, Tuckey, Hanson, Sandilands, Abbott and every other aspiring tin-pot lunatic REEEL OZZY has told them for years that their ignorance, selfishness, callousness and prejudice is some kind of a virtue. ‘Plain-spokeness’… a gutwrenching collection of which is posted above.
I imagine it would be quite a different story it were WHITE AUSTRALIAN children imprisoned off the coast of New Zealand in a glorified human rat-cage, caught as they fled a life of submission to religious and patriarchal lunacy (ala the now resurgent Taliban in Afghanistan) official government death-squads (can we say Sri Lanka?), and imperial bombers raining fire and cluster munitions on civilian neighborhoods (pick almost any landmass on earth… the yanks have probably bombed it).
It would be somehow DIFFERENT then…
100% correct, my upbringing was to be fair and compassionate to all. As a young adult and man I had little to do with issues like immigration or refugees, and my work in various industries saw me working alongside Albanians, Macedonian, Greeks, Italians, Vietnamese, African fellow employees. I thought nothing of it and got along fine with all of them, respected them, took the time to learn about them, at smoko or lunch we would discuss things like where they came from their families and also mine and other apprentices who joined in. Never were any ill feelings or harsh words exchanged, and jokes about race did get made but they were never nasty or hate filled, for instance my head chef was German and we always did a Monty Python “don’t mention the war” act when we started work. Anyway as time passed and i moved into other jobs I began to be influenced by the mainstream media and the rot set in, suddenly I was gripped by the fear of the unknown, the bogey man on a boat or with a bomb under their dish dash clothing. You naturally want to know more so you look in places, almost intentionally to fulfil your expectations of the issues, and voila more propaganda and more politics of fear and you are hooked. You find yourself joining or commenting on groups and forums against refugees, immigration, religion, and other “not like us” sites.
Unless you physically tear yourself away and learn about what you fear and confront it, you will forever remain trapped in a vicious cycle of fear and loathing. The frothing at the mouth bile and vilification seen above is purely reactionary and fear fuelled misinformation, the uninformed opinions of people too easily manipulated by the vested interest of media and politics. Fear is a vote generator.
To break away from that cycle, you have to want to, be encouraged to and make the effort, quitting smoking is the same. I managed both (smoking and blind views on issues), it took a nudge from this site, but i am again unashamed to say I am like the young man my parents set loose on the world many many years ago. I feel better for it, I appreciate much better the things I have and have my capacity to enjoy life back. The dark feelings and fear and hate are gone. Some will do the same as me, more than some I hope, the rest will just plod along wallowing in their bile. Never mind they can have their opinion, just don’t expect a lot of good press or sympathy when it is shown to the world for what it is. That’s my 2 cents for this thread lol
i always wondered what the feelings and attitudes were of the personnel on the frontline, the police at Woomera breakout, for example, the navy, and other over-paid cogs of this evil machine. Is there any compassion, humanity or understanding? Tonight i found out firsthand, having met a guy who works as a chef on a navy boat. I casually asked what they did with their time out at sea, he said ”alot of training”. I asked if he partook in stopping asylum boats reaching australia, he casually replied ” i think we should just bombed the cunts”. Perplexed and shocked i asked for further explanation, he said ”you know, sink them”. He believed they should, as said earlier, go through the ”legal channels”. He also tried to argue, that the immigrants ‘get it good here’, getting four meals a day, playstations and healthcare. Could not, would not listen to my point of view (at all) that they don’t want fucking playstations, they want freedom. So blinded by the bullshit he has been fed, does he block out the point i am trying to make perhaps?
All this money going into training (building muscle strength) yet complains that asylum seekers are wasting taxpayer money! Perhaps if you gave them a chance, all immigrants could get jobs and repay their gratitude by also paying tax, and helping to build this ‘great nation’ (this wonderful, multi-cultural nation). When he asked what i was doing on friday night (yeah, still put it on me!) i said i’ll probably be rallying for marriage equality or refugee rights, he said, and i quote ”if i saw you at a rally, (movement of right arm, gesturing elbowing me in the face)”.
So fucking brainwashed….
I wonder why he treated you as you say? Maybe its because the little bigot in you had already made up you’re mind you didn’t like him.
He choose a career and I bet you pounds to peanuts it wasn’t to go out and be blown up on boats that the persons deliberately set alight so there was no way to send them back or save them.
Would you enjoy going to a boat full of people and the next thing they have set it on fire with you in it, as what has happened over the past 12 months in several incidences.
I love your name “antibogan” I a sense your comments and name itself conjures up the absolute racist you are!. To think that all peoples of this earth are to be equal and yet you start a web page of comments and lies to justify your own phobia of bogans. What is wrong with a lady pushing a pram around if that is all the means of transport they have. One could suggest by your lack of compassion for your fellow Australian that you are educated at university and that makes you a filthy red in my books. Keep the good work up on vilifying these individuals as they wouldn’t get any recognition, until you decided to target them. Your a racist in your own right ANTIBOGAN!
Hi ‘RTWOI’, are you going to tell us what that stands for? As for the name, ‘theantibogan’, how can you possibly claim that it’s racist? While the definition of a bogan is almost exclusively Australian, what is it that separates white Anglo Australians like me and the rest of the subscribers to theantibogan apart from the people featured here? Think about that for a minute. We’re white Anglos, yet we get off calling racist/sexist/homophobic white Anglos bogans without for a minute believing that we’re bogans too. A race thing? No. A character thing? Yes.
Then you go onto to accuse us of being somehow against all mothers with prams. No, once again you’ve got it wrong. A characteristic of a bogan is to pump out a few hundred children out of her clown car vagina, working for the baby bonuses, but then complain about how Australia is full. The pram is used by both bogan and non-bogan – but the bogan is statistically speaking more used to using it.
Next item on your agenda is our apparent ‘lack of compassion’ for fellow Australians. Don’t you see that the only Australians we lack compassion for are the kind that want to blow up people fleeing persecution and inhumanity? Do you think all Australians feel that way? If so, you are totally misguided, and values do not fit in with the Australian way of life – ‘fair go’, ‘tolerance’, ‘helping the underdog’, ‘sharing and compassion’ etc.
The next part made us laugh. We are educated at University and thus we are ‘filthy reds’. No further comment needed here, as the sheer stupidity shines through without our need to highlight it.
Finally: “Your (sic) a racist in your own right ANTIBOGAN”. For fucks sake, when will you bogans learn? There’s a difference between ‘your’ and ‘you’re’! And you’re the apologist for racism, we’re just boganists. Thanks for dropping by, lowlife scum.
I hope you tell your GP or dentist next time you see him/her that he she is a “filthy Red” because they went to university.
I’m sure you’d have quite a bit to do with the legal profession as well. Also university-educated. Tell your lawyer that next time you’re up in front of the Magistrate. While you’re at it, the Magistrate is university-educated as well.
Chances are the doctor or dentist or lawyer or nurse or accountant you’d need to do your tax because you probably can’t count past ten without taking your shoes off is either an immigrant, a refugee or the child of an immigrant or refugee.
WoW hit a nerve Bosh! sorry Josh! so I gather you are a filthy Uni Red I was talking about. Yes I paid cash for my uni courses and not leeching off the poor taxpayer to pay for an education,like you might of done.
I have worked for myself all my life and these professionals you have remarked on would be nothing without my money. I have also recently received notification of jury duty so that shots you allegations down the drain.
BTW I come from a family of chartered accountants.. dipstick! Pick some decent agreements in a debate. Give me something to work with as you are inept!
If you are the best that this ANTIGROGAN website can offer in constructive debate I have already won!
Righto. And I own five houses and seven sportscars. I’m also a direct descendant of Australia’s first Prime Minister and I am a life member of the Royal Flying Doctor Association.
Do you realise how stupid you look, blowing your own trumpet online about qualifications, money and family lines that you can’t prove?
Defend the comments of bogans on this website or leave. That’s what you came here for, right?
You seem to have plenty of time orgainsing personal attacks on people just because their opinion is otherwise.
This is one sign of a fascist.
Your lack of intelligence scares me.
By the way leave Natasha alone. We are watching you!
Well hello there Nicholas. We were wondering when one of the APP/FOWF fuckbags would turn up. You’ve certainly left it a while to introduce yourself, but that’s understandable, given the two epic failure groups that you’re at the front of.
It’s funny that you think that we’re ‘orgainsing’ (sic) attacks on people because of their ‘otherwise’ opinions. Do you think that much organisation went into the most recent post, Nicholas? You know, the post where 20+ so called Australians were jovially calling for the cold blooded murder of people fleeing persecution. Do you think that their ‘otherwise’ opinions should be exempt from criticism? You probably feel that they are merely expressing their freedom of speech, right? “Bomb the cunts and let them drown” is not free speech, it’s incitement to violence and it’s racist and it’s completely oppositional to Australian values. But don’t let that get in the way of a possible hick vote. And while their collective voices are free speech, our retorting comments are fascism, right? And you’re scared by our lack of intelligence?
We’d love you to hang around, Nick. You’re so stupid it hurts. It’s so odd that you make threats and warn us that you’re ‘watching’, because, if we didn’t want you to see, do you think we’d make a website? And what’s this manly display of chivalry? Protecting Natasha? Who the fuck is Natasha? Surely you’re not talking about your self proclaimed Asian bogan are you?
Nicky, you’re a racist bogan fuck who really needs to get a fuck. By the way, the hot water in the showers at work have been playing up. Do you have any idea where I can get this hot water problem fixed?
But Nicky the Antibogan has also attacked Clint Holmes, Sam Wassenaar and your own leader, Hodges himself, among others. The silence from you was deafening even though they are all members of your little hate club.
Why the particular interest in Natasha? Does she need protection over and above the other racists? Is there something you wish to share with us?
Now Nicky, don’t expect us to get scared of the thought of you watching us, but I expect you get a nice view from your balcony at Rozelle.
Not a lot of your supporters living round there but a lot of highly educated progressive professional people who vote either Labor or Greens though. You’d stick out like a sore thumb.
Well I have seen everything now, you have published and I suppose without consent the picture of some unsuspecting woman of Asian decent that has obviously not given you permission to publish her photo. I won’t be surprised when she gets and AVO out on you ANTIGROGAN!
I see you want to promote the elimination of racism & discrimination in our society, however you have published the photo without consent of an Asian decent woman that you have been accused of harassing. I wonder how the HREOC are going to view this website.
BTW I am university educated too, Thank god I wasn’t drawn into the antics that you have displayed on this website.
It will give me great pleasure to write to Mr G Inness of HREOC of your exploits and vilification of a young Asian decent woman.
Did you mean Asian ‘descent’ woman? She wasn’t posted here because she’s Asian. And she certainly hasn’t been vilified, dear University educated bogan friend. She has publicly declared herself a bogan, and we have merely cemented the truth in her proclamation.
You may realise, that contacting Graham Innes may result in the possible prosecution of the friends you have jumped online to defend. You may also realise that this website is young, and HREOC has already recently been contacted calling for a review of the material posted on here. HREOC has been contacted by us.
Obviously this isn’t the only forum for publishing screenshots and photos of comments by people without their permission. Have you visited this group recently? Of course you have. But look, to be fair, if Natasha *ahem* Natalie wants that photo that she published on the internet a while ago to be removed, we will happily oblige if she contacts us. We will of course ask for her and her croonies like Dazza and Nicky to quit defaming people on our side at the other end.
You know it’s funny, RTWOI. You still haven’t told us what that stands for. And you still haven’t commented on the comments of the people you’ve come here to defend. Do you excuse their actions? If you’re going to pick a side, then defend it. If the comments made by people you see here at theantibogan are excusable, please tell us why.
So you obviously know who this woman is and you might agree that the saying from a young inexperienced in life woman might use the word “bogan” as a hip way of connecting to others. I see in other comments that children bandy the word “gay” about yet would you consider them bogan’s?.
You can change this comment with a reply anyway you like and I suppose you will. But by you’re omission you have vilified this young woman by commenting that she has the right to ask ” pretty please can I have my photo back” is a form of bastardizing, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Also there is a matter that you might not have thought out when you posted the picture without this young woman’s consent and if she complains to her family and friends the consequences could be more than you can handle.
Is this how the “TheAntiBogan” wants to be portrayed, stealing young women’s photos and vilifying them. Your a real champion of anti-racism.
As for my definition of RTWOI is left to your imagination… Oh that’s right you might lack that trait as you live in a world of hate for you fellow human beings.
I wonder if Tony Abbott will ask for his public photos not to be used on the internet in the form of freedom of expression.
RTWOI:
Random Twit With Obsolete Intelligence
Read The Words Of Imbeciles
Right This Way Oppositional Inbred
Retard Tweets Words Of Idiocy
It’s time for you to leave. You offer nothing. Unless of course you want to defend the comments and actions of the people showcased on this website. As for theantibogan’s right to publish them, please refer to the disclaimer. And if anyone featured here would like to speak for themselves and contact us asking for a withdrawal of their pictures/comments – we’re human beings and will of course oblige. Your chauvinism in believing you have to stand up for a woman because she is incapable of doing so herself is an obvious alpha trait you own.
Take it elsewhere RTWOI. You’ve been married three times and still have the same in-laws and you’re frustrated – we get it. But don’t waste any more of our time.
“The ANTIGROGAN” I don’t have to prove anything to you boy. Yes boy because you sound awful jealous of my situation. like a boy. What are you asking me to leave? Can’t you or won’t you debate properly on matters that concern all Australians.
BTW Edmund Barton was our first Prime Minister and head of the Protectionist Party. He was opposed to any form of immigration so its understandable that you come from a bigoted background given your protrayal of how you steal young womens photos and blackmail them into giving them back…
BTW your not related to Blackbeard or Denis Ferguson are you?
Sorry but I see that I have done nothing wrong here on this website and if you can’t handle what you dish out back. Why vilify people anyway?
It seems like some circus here where you get the animals and the post’s made here are like curious spectators that prod the animals with sticks to see how they tick.
“Here we go folks watch the little critter squirm when I stick my finger up its orifice”
Steve Irwin, Gee wiz I hope he wasn’t a bogan!
One actually creditable point is that the young women didn’t ask for her photo to be put there, so why does she need to ask you to remove said photo?
Is there something in your makeup that requires her to grovel for a common courtesy.
You mean the young womAn? At some stage you’re going to have to realise that you’re here as an apologist for racism first, and a defender of some defenseless woman second. The very fact that you have taken ownership of this suggests that you have some kind of patriarchal fantasy in which you have to save the young princess from being portrayed as a bogan/racist, possibly because you believe there is some kind of gushing gratitude that will come from this which will see her metaphorically drop to her knees and ask how she can ever repay you.
Your leap to her defense, while ignoring the hundreds of others whose photos and comments have been nailed to the hall of shame is bewildering. And in this defense, you’ve managed, on many occasions, to accuse the authors of this blog of being racist because of our albeit cryptic attack on her ‘Asian decent (sic)’ and because most of our targets are bogans, which you believe constitutes an entire race.
So are you going to leap to the defense of Paul Toohey? 😉
Two wrongs don’t make a right!
The fact that you have lowered yourself to the level of the racists you are vilifying makes you a racist also hence the HREOC investigating you.
Racism covers a broad spectrum of topics and is not exclusively yours to use in attacking individuals.
I sleep well at night knowing I am not a racist in any way shape/form.
I pity you as you have nothing constructive to offer society but your rhetoric about your presumptions of racists on a website. Why don’t you get out there on the ground and confront these people you are accusing.
No because the fact that you hide behind a pseudonym makes one assume that you are nothing.
The internet is just a virtual world and can be switched off and the matter can go away from any individuals everyday life.
However to be confronted at a place of work or event by several people can then be quite confronting.
I would suggest that you sit back and have a good think, is it worth the hype and the fun you assume you are having right know when you haven’t thought out what the consequences might be. For every action there is a counter action.
Karma is a funny thing in my experience of life and things can happen at anytime, place etc.
As for Paul Toohey I don’t give a hoot about him, he’s a man and can defend himself, I suppose he might find out his name has been mentioned and I suppose you have made another enemy.
Do you really enjoy this life you have created for yourself of maybe having to look over your back for fear of being confronted by an individual/individuals. Please reply with the usual “It doesn’t worry me” because I know human nature.
We refuse to believe that we’re lowering ourselves in any way at all. We believe that exposing racism at it’s most hardcore is a community service. The comments made by these people have been made by them in the public forum, do you realise this? As for a HREOC investigation, you don’t seem to be listening. We’ve already contacted the HREOC – we want the material on this website reviewed.
“Racism covers a broad spectrum of topics and is not exclusively yours to use in attacking individuals”. What does this even mean? Are you back on the bandwagon of calling us racists because we’re anti bogan? You do realise that you’re generalising when you suggest that all white Australians are bogans, right? We believe that couldn’t be further from the truth. Most Australians are educated, progressive free thinking good natured people who believe in a fair go for all. We don’t use racism when we’re attacking our targets, we don’t suggest for a minute that these people are acting the way they are because they’re white Australians. We target the behaviour, not the race. And the reason for the overwhelming white Anglos on here? Well, firstly it’s important to note that in this country, the weight of racism comes from the dominant culture who see other cultures as inferior. And secondly, we are physically attributed to these people and feel great shame when they act this way – we have no choice but to expose them and show just how marginalised they are. Their views are the minority, but they are a loud minority.
We have nothing constructive to offer society? Perhaps that might be true, if the only thing you were making this judgement on was the knowledge of this website and nothing else, and that your judgement on this website was your opinion and not the opinion of others. You know nothing of the anti-racism work that the authors of this website or its contributors are involved in.
We have no intention of confronting the people that appear on this website. Can you see a point in doing this?
“…the fact that you hide behind a pseudonym makes one assume that you are nothing.” RTWOI is not a name, so based on your logic, you too are nothing. And if you had any idea of the mentality of the people exposed here (as I’m sure you do), you would realise the need for general anonymity. The fact that we stand behind a singular title does not change our message in the slightest.
“…is it worth the hype and the fun you assume you are having right know (sic) when you haven’t thought our what the consequences might be. (sic) For every action there is a counter action. Karma is a funny thing in my experience of life and things can happen at anytime, place etc.” Is this some kind of lame, thinly veiled threat? Do you think it’s fun for us to trawl through ‘Aussie pride’ groups finding that Aussie pride is just the banner that represents sick hatred for non-whites? Do you think it’s fun for us to be passionate about the plight of people fleeing inhumanity only to find that people who we share a country with laugh at them and call for their death? Do you think it’s fun finding evidence of extreme homophobia and xenophobia and sexism by the very people calling for non-whites to ‘respect our values’? It’s FUCKED UP. Make no mistake you fucking cunt.
“As for Paul Toohey I don’t give a hoot about him, he’s a man and can defend himself…”. Thank you for pointing out that your defense of the ‘Asian decent (sic)’ girl was your alpha male mode kicking in, and your inward sexist opinion that a woman needs saving because only men are able to defend themselves physically and intellectually.
Not only a fully fledged racist apologist, but a sexist as well…
What a nice guy…
BTW, RTWOI, you can sleep easy at night knowing your not “racist in any way/shape or form”? Well then, great to see you’ve changed your opinion on the Vietnamese since your earlier post… maybe you’re moving on up in the world!
Easy to tell you know nothing about the law Mr Initials, nor do you know anything about AVOs and why and how they are issued (unless you have been on the receiving end. Do tell us?)
I am very doubtful that you are in fact university educated, unless they are running special courses for impaired racists these days.
Make sure you spell Graeme INNES’s name correctly when you write to him. It’s polite to do so.
RTWOI likes to post at Muslim Village. He is a troll, and a pushover. Watch him swoon whenever he sees a fellow Australian talk about being patriotic by killing migrants.
Again slanderous remarks from the peanut gallery, I have made remarks on observations of how you vilify humans on this website and have used no profanities as yet to anyone, Yet you have the gaul to say I teach impaired racists, isn’t this in itself a omission of the opposite that you suppose to be championing. I pity the parents that brought you into the world as they must fell discouraged everyday that they have failed to make you decent human beings or do you have mums and dads.
It must be all consuming to have a hatred of your fellow human being.
I will be honest with you I do have and account on the muslim village because I study the Koran and have been since 1999. The suggestion that I am a troll is your oppinion and if you contact the Admins of said muslim village, they will tell you that I have never denigrated them or their website.
You teach impaired racists? Huh?
Again slanderous remarks from the peanut gallery, I have made remarks on observations of how you vilify humans on this website and have used no profanities as yet to anyone, Yet you have the gaul to say I teach impaired racists, isn’t this in itself a omission of the opposite that you suppose to be championing. I pity the parents that brought you into the world as they must fell discouraged everyday that they have failed to make you decent human beings or do you have mums and dads.
It must be all consuming to have a hatred of your fellow human being.
I will be honest with you I do have and account on the muslim village because I study the Koran and have been since 1999. The suggestion that I am a troll is your opinion and if you contact the Admins of said muslim village, they will tell you that I have never denigrated them or their website.
Pingback: The Antibogan Is (still) Racist… « Fuck Off We're Full Of Racists
I hate how right-wing racists co-opt the Eureka Flag for their own purposes, as seen in one of the profile pictures above.
The original Eureka stockade contained many different nationalities, yet racists use it as their symbol. It’s our symbol, a labour movement symbol of solidarity amongst the working class in Australia, no matter what nationality!
Stick to your swastikas and other racist paraphernalia.
I challenge you all to spend a day listening to the stories from some of these asylum seekers. With compassion in your hearts, and then think of your children and wonder how they would feel to see you murdered, raped or your village destroyed for no reason. Not everyone has the same story but violence is usually a common factor.
The saddest thing is a lot of these people try to escape the atrocities of their home countries and what do they find here in Australia.. more violence… so not cool.
Absolutely Natalie. People forget that at the end of the day we’re dealing with real people, with real hopes, dreams, feelings, just like ourselves and any other person. I also definitely encourage anyone to talk to an asylum seeker or even just a refugee from the past; it really brings things into perspective and makes things much more real. For these racist freaks, it’s not real, they can’t see the faces.
If it weren’t for the boat people who came a few centuries ago, Australia wouldn’t be the prosperous, developed country that it is today.
Heck, back in those days they specifically and knowingly shipped convicts to this land. What makes refugees and asylum seekers any “worse” than them? Because they sail here for survival instead of conviction?
Ironically enough it’s largely descendants of these people who demonstrate such hatred towards boat people, whereas the indigenous Australian groups whose cultures have been drastically changed forever during colonisation are not as loud and spiteful.
its hard to believe that people, especially aussies would say such comments… ESPECIALLY the older generations!!!
everyone has a bit of racism inside, but there is a line, and people are taking it wayyy way across the line…
tsk tsk, should be ashamed!!
Whats all the fuss about being Racist? Its simply the result of picking a side just as you have chosen a side, the far left as it happens but a side none the less. Anyway there is nothing racist in choosing to control ones boarders, its both a legal requirement and a national duty. The simple fact that you would take the exact same stance on boat people were those boats full of Australian Nationalists seems to have slipped everyone’s notice but mine!
Hypothetically speaking were those boats full of people rushing here to join the APP and not your socialist handout paradise at my expense would you be in such a rush to welcome them? Dont answer that I know you would be grabbing a megaphone and demanding the Navy use them for target practice too.
Your mantra of tolerate everything save what you dont approve of does not wash anymore!
BTW if these so called refugees were than and not just handout shoppers why exactly do they travel through or past half the world without stopping or even asking for asylum but travel right on to Australia where all the goodies are laid on for them at taxpayers expense? Taxpayers I might add who were not consulted before such arrangements were entered into and who clearly do not approve of the cultural enrichment they offer!
One further thought for you have you ever stopped to ask why people would be so against the current immigration/Refugee policies or is it just so much easier for you to class them all as mindless bogans and avoid asking any hard questions?
Myth 1 – Boat People are Queue Jumpers
Fact: In Iraq and Afghanistan, there are no queues for people to jump. Australia has no diplomatic representation in these countries and supports the International coalition of nations who continue to oppose these regimes and support sanctions against them. Therefore, there is no standard refugee process where people wait in line to have their applications considered. Few countries between the Middle East and Australia are signatories to the 1951 Refugee Convention, and as such asylum seekers are forced to continue to travel to another country to find protection.
People who are afraid for their lives are fleeing from the world’s most brutal regimes including the Taliban in Afghanistan and Sadaam Hussein’s dictatorship in Iraq. Antonio Domini, Head of UN Humanitarian Program in Afghanistan, states that Afghanistan is one of the most difficult places in the world in which to survive.
Myth 2 – Asylum Seekers are Illegal
Fact: This is untrue. Under Australian Law and International Law a person is entitled to make an application for refugee asylum in another country when they allege they are escaping persecution. Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that “Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.”
People who arrive on our shores without prior authorisation from Australia, with no documents, or false documents are not illegal. They are asylum seekers – a legal status under International Law. Many Asylum Seekers are forced to leave their countries in haste and are unable to access appropriate documentation. In many cases oppressive authorities actively prevent
normal migration processes from occurring. ‘Illegals’ are people who overstay their visas. The vast majority of these in Australia are from western countries, including 5,000 British tourists.
Myth 3 – Australia Already Takes Too Many Refugees
Fact: Australia receives relatively few refugees by world standards. In 2001 Australia will receive only 12 000 refugees through its humanitarian program. This number has remained static for three years, despite the ever-increasing numbers of refugees’ worldwide. Australia accepted 20 000 refugees each year at the beginning of the 1980’s.
According to Amnesty International 1 in every 115 people on earth are refugees, and a new refugee is created every 21 seconds. Refugees re-settle all over the world. However, the distribution of refugees across the world is very unequal.
*
Tanzania hosts one refugee for every 76 Tanzanian people (1:76)
*
Britain hosts one refugee for every 530 British people. (1:530)
*
Australia hosts one refugee for every 1583 Australian people. (1:1583)
Myth 4 – We’re Being Swamped by Hordes of Boat People
Fact: 300 000 refugees arrived in Europe to seek asylum last year. In contrast, 4174 reached Australia by boat or plane. In 2000, Iran and
Pakistan each hosted over a million Afghan refugees. The real burden of assisting refugees is borne in the main by the world’s poorest nations.
Myth 5 – They’re Not Real Refugees Anyway
Fact: 97% of applicants from Iraq and 93% of applicants from Afghanistan seeking asylum without valid visas in Australia in 1999 were recognised as genuine refugees. Therefore, under Australian law they were found to be eligible to stay in Australia. Generally, 84% of all asylum seekers are found to be legitimate refugees and are able to stay in Australia.
Myth 6 – They Must Be ‘Cashed up’ to Pay People Smugglers
Fact: It is alleged that people who have the resources to pay people smugglers could not possibly be genuine refugees. The UNHCR disputes claims about ‘cashed up’ refugees saying that payments made to people smugglers in fact range from $4000 – $5000 AUD. In reality, many families and communities pool their resources in an attempt to send their relatives to safety. People smuggling is a crime that the international community needs to combat. However, this does not negate the legitimacy of asylum seekers’ claims, nor their need to seek refuge. The international community, in eradicating people smuggling, is also required to address the growing numbers of asylum seekers throughout the world. As a Western nation, Australia has a role to play.
Myth 7 – There is no Alternative to Mandatory Detention
Fact: Asylum seekers claims need to be assessed for legitimacy. Australia is the only Western country that mandatorily detains asylum seekers whilst their claims are being heard. Asylum seekers are not criminals and detention should be minimal. At a cost of $104 a day per head the policy of detention is very expensive. Community based alternatives to mandatory detention can be found internationally and within the current Australian parole system.
A select Committee of the NSW Parliament has costed alternatives to incarceration including home detention and transitional housing. The average cost of community based programs are (per person, per day): Parole: $5.39. Probation: $3.94. Home Detention: $58.83. These options are clearly more economically efficient, and much more humane.
Sweden receives similar numbers of asylum seekers as Australia, despite having less than half the population. Detention is only used to establish a persons identity and to conduct criminal screening. Most detainees are released within a very short time, particularly if they have relatives or friends living in Sweden. Of the 17,000 asylum seekers currently in Sweden 10,000 reside outside the detention centres. Children are only detained for the minimum possible time (a maximum of 6 days).
Myth 8 – If We Let Them In, They’ll Take Our Benefits
Fact: A common misconception is that refugees arriving in Australia will ‘steal’ the entitlements of Australians. The reality is that refugees, like migrants, create demand for goods and services, thus stimulating the economy and generating growth and employment. A recent UCLA study has shown that unauthorised immigration boosts the US economy by $800 billion per year.
Myths & Lies told about Asylum Seekers
Are asylum seekers queue jumpers? There are no queues for Iraqi or Afghan refugees. Australia has no diplomatic presence in those countries and maintains trading sanctions imposed on Iraq by the United Nations Security Council in 1990.
The typical route for an Afghan or Iraqi refugee is an overland escape into Pakistan then a flight to Thailand. Bangkok is the nearest Australian immigration centre in the region. Therefore, there is no official or standard process which provides for an orderly and direct departure for refugees from Iraq or Afghanistan.
Are asylum seekers illegal? Generally it is not possible for a person fleeing persecution to obtain a visa to enter another country. This is why they apply for protection. The right to apply for asylum is a fundamental human right. Many asylum seekers are forced to leave their countries in haste or in secret and so are often unable to access appropriate documentation.
In many cases authorities actively prevent migration and refuse to issue travel papers. In some cases, identifying documentation might be incriminating and may be destroyed for self-protection and the protection of family, friends and colleagues.
Persons are entitled to make application for asylum in another country when they allege they are escaping persecution. Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that ‘Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.’
People who arrive on our shores without prior authorisation from Australia, with no documents or with false documents, are not illegal and they are not criminals; they are asylum seekers, a legal status under Australian and international law.
The 1951 Convention does not specify the processes to use in determining whether or not a person fits the definition of a refugee. As a consequence, asylum seekers are assessed in different ways around the world, according to different legal and political regimes. It is important to remember that while many asylum applicants may not meet the strict Convention definition of a refugee, it does not mean that they are out to abuse the system, or that they have no claim on our compassion.
Does Australia take its share of refugees? In 2000-2001:
* the number of people ‘of concern’ to the United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR) was 21.8 million, or one out of every 275 persons on earth; (www.unhcr.ch)
* Australia agreed to take a maximum of 12,000 in its humanitarian program but in fact took less than 8,000, despite the increasing numbers of refugees worldwide; (www.dima.gov.au)
* about 4,100 asylum seekers arrived in Australia by boat; (refugeecouncil.org.au) By contrast, each year, about 20,000 people, mainly from the UK and the USA, overstay their tourist and work visas. (www.dima.gov.au) In number, these people are many times greater than boat arrivals but they are rarely detained. This suggests that the problem is not one of maintaining Australia’s sovereignty and protecting the borders against those who seek to breach them but of protecting the borders against the arrival of particular groups.
Is Australia taking too many refugees? It is true that people smugglers are targeting Australia but the smugglers are targeting every other developed nation as well and their ‘clients’ come from the same places.
Afghans, Iraqis and Iranians account for three of the top five nationalities seeking asylum in Britain. As long as the conditions in source countries do not improve, people smugglers will have a large pool of potential customers, despite the huge risks and enormous expense involved, and despite disincentives like detention and temporary visas.
The real burden of assisting refugees is borne by the world’s poorest nations. The main host countries remain Pakistan which shelters two million persons, Iran 1.9 million and Germany 976,000. (www.unhcr.ch)
Closer to home, Thailand hosts more than 200,000 refugees from Burma. 71 countries accept refugees and asylum seekers, and on a per capita basis Australia ranks 38, slightly behind Kazakhstan, Guinea, Djibouti and Syria.
Furthermore, Australia is one of the most difficult countries in the world to reach and because of this it is highly unlikely that we will ever see the large numbers of asylum seekers other countries experience.
There is an erroneous perception that everyone in the world wants to come to Australia yet Australia is little known in the total scheme of things so it is unlikely that there will ever be large numbers of people seeking asylum here.
There are currently millions of refugees waiting in camps on the borders of Afghanistan in a situation described by the UN as a ‘human crisis of monumental proportions’. Australia accepts a tiny proportion of these displaced people.
Are the asylum seekers genuine refugees? In the year ended June 1999, 97 per cent of applicants from Iraq and 93 per cent of applicants from Afghanistan seeking asylum in Australia were recognised as genuine refugees. Under Australian law they were found to be eligible to stay in Australia.
Of all asylum seekers, 84 per cent are found to be legitimate refugees and are therefore legally entitled and eligible to stay here. (refugeecouncil.org.au)
Despite continuing calls from Australian politicians for applications for asylum to be processed in Indonesia, Australia has not taken a single refugee from the UNHCR in Jakarta for more than five years. Some people have given up on the process and paid for boat trips to Australia.
Among those who died when their ship sank off the coast of Indonesia in late 2001, 24 had already been granted refugee status. Many more had relations in Australia who had been granted asylum but were not allowed access to their families because of Temporary Protection Visa conditions.
How wealthy are refugees? Some people think that those who have the resources to pay people smugglers could not possibly be genuine refugees. The UNHCR disputes claims about ‘cashed up’ refugees saying that payments made to people smugglers in fact range from $AU4,000 to $AU5,000.
In reality, many families and communities pool their resources by selling everything they own in an attempt to send their loved ones to safety.
People smuggling is dangerous and undesirable. It exists because the official resettlement programs run by the United Nations are tiny compared to the numbers of refugees concerned.
Conditions in refugee camps are appalling and the current system fails to offer asylum seekers relief from their desperate and unrelieved misery; it fails to acknowledge the legitimacy of the claims of asylum seekers and their need to seek a better life.
What sort of accommodation do detention centres offer? Global Solutions (a division of Group 4, FALCK) stands to make $770 million from the mandatory detention of asylum seekers in Australia.
Conditions inside camps are extremely harsh. There are inadequate numbers of beds, limited bathroom facilities and inappropriate food. Detention centres even have solitary confinement cells.
There is little or no access to legal information in languages other than English, health care facilities are poor, and nurses are given written instructions not to hug or excessively comfort the detainees.
Even though children may be held for years, education programs are not available.
In some camps, such as Port Hedland (now closed), detainees worked for $1 an hour in the kitchens and gardens. What is more, detainees are charged $150 a day for their accommodation which can add up to thousands of dollars by the time they are finally granted asylum. An 8-month detention costs the detainee about $35,000.
Ex-detainees report that guards frequently tell the detainees that they are hated by all Australians and that upon their release they are likely to be beaten, harassed or worse.
Mandatory detention in camps in remote areas is a violation of human rights and must be abandoned.
Terrorists or innocent victims? There is no evidence that any asylum seekers arriving by boat have any connection to terrorism. Indeed, in an address to the “Inquiry into a Certain Maritime Incident” (the Children Overboard Inquiry) no less than the Director General of ASIO (Australian Security Intelligence Organisation) Mr Dennis Richardson, said that no terrorists had ever been found amongst the clientele of people smugglers. “Why would you send your best trained, most valuable personnel down a route which ended in mandatory detention, if not death along the way?”
There is no evidence that asylum seekers threw their children overboard as claimed by the Australian Prime Minister and other government ministers.
The links made by Phillip Ruddock and others between asylum seekers and terrorists following the attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York were instances of racist demonising of innocent victims.
The scapegoating of refugees by the government promotes fear and hysteria and has led to incidents of racially motivated personal abuse, verbal and physical.
Those who perpetrated the 11 September 2001 attacks did not arrive in the United States as asylum seekers.
The latest military retaliation by the US with the full support of NATO, including Australia, has had a devastating effect on the defenceless civilian population of Afghanistan. Reports have indicated that thousands of innocent civilians including refugees have been killed in the attacks on ‘terrorists’.
There are many other countries in the world that are enduring similar conditions of war, poverty and marginalisation, all factors that lead people to escape to a better life.
MYTHS ABOUT REFUGEES
There is a lot of confusion about refugees: not just about who they are but also about the impact they have on Australian life. Here are just some of the myths:
Charity begins at home: we should help Aborigines and other disadvantaged groups in Australia first!
“Charity” is not something that should be considered in terms of “us” and “them”. If we are being responsible members of the human community we should seek ways to assist all those in need.
Refugees take our jobs which is balanced by the contradictory myth: all refugees go on unemployment benefits.
It is true that newly arrived refugees have higher unemployment rates than the community average. This is not unexpected. Amongst the refugee arrivals are people who have been tortured and deeply traumatised. This can interfere with employment. There are also a significant number of entrants whose qualifications are not recognised in Australia and they need time to make adjustments. There is also the issue of learning English. Refugees are entitled to 510 hours of free English language instruction which must be taken in the first 2 years – and it is beneficial that the entrants do this as they are unlikely to do this later.
The fact that refugees “come from behind” in the employment stakes highlights the need for specifically targeted intervention programs that recognise issues such as their trauma, their unrecognised qualifications and their lack of English. Targeted programs that do this have shown that they are very successful at placing refugees in the workforce. If we are to bring refugees to Australia (and it is Australia’s decision that we do so) it is important that we recognise their specific needs and address these. If we do this, we will reap the benefits. Most refugees want to work, both to restore their damaged sense of self esteem and to repay what they see as their debt of gratitude to Australia for providing them with protection.
Whether “refugees take our jobs” is the sort of question that has no easy answer. Refugees do compete for jobs but they are also consumers. Because they arrive with nothing they have to purchase household goods, clothing etc, all of which provides jobs for the people who make and sell these commodities.
Refugees have no right to come here and expect us to help them.
Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: “Everyone has the right to seek and enjoy in other countries freedom from persecution”.
It is an accident of birth that we are born in a country where human rights are respected. Do we have a moral right to protect these at the expense of others? This does not mean that Australia alone must take the full burden for protecting the persecuted. It does mean that we have to play a part in an international response that includes a wide spectrum of initiatives from addressing root causes to providing asylum to people whose human rights have been violated.
Refugees are economic migrants who come here to get a better life.
The distinction between refugees and migrants is outlined on the FAQs page.
Refugees get all sorts of handouts from the government.
As will be outlined on the FAQs page, refugees essentially have the same rights and entitlements as permanent residents. They are, however, exempt from the waiting period for Social Security benefits and they get 510 hours of free English language instruction and some get access to post-arrival assistance. These extra entitlements are in recognition of their particular needs.
If we let one in, they will come in floods.
Australia is one of the most difficult countries in the world to get to. We have no common borders and there are universal visa requirements and carrier sanctions. Because of this it is highly unlikely that we will ever see the large numbers of asylum seekers other countries experience.
There is also the erroneous perception in the public’s mind that everyone in the world wants to come to Australia. We are little known in the total scheme of things and far less of an incentive than countries such as the United States.
It is realistic to expect that asylum seekers will keep coming to Australia but unlikely that there will be “floods” of people with the wherewithal and inclination to make the journey by irregular means.
The best way for Australia to deal with asylum seekers is to process their claims expeditiously. This way those in need of protection receive it and those whose claims are without merit can returned to their country of origin to “send a message” to others in similar circumstances that it is not so easy to get to Australia.
One of the things that is important to recognise in this debate is that any response a country makes must protect those in genuine need of protection ie there must be the presumption of a genuine claim until it is determined to be otherwise, not the presumption that the person is rorting the system.
Refugees cannot possibly contribute anything to us.
It is a myth that all refugees are illiterate peasants. The majority that come to Australia are educated middle class people – whose education, profession or political opinions have drawn them to the attention of the authorities and resulted in their persecution.
By definition refugees are survivors. They have survived because they have the courage, ingenuity and creativity to have done so. These are qualities which we value in Australia. The challenge for Australia is to assist newly arrived refugees to process the experiences of their past and rebuild their lives in Australia. If we do this we will reap the benefits of the qualities and experiences they bring to Australia.
____________________________
Myth: ‘Australia is overrun by refugees.’
Fact: Australia accepts a very small number of refugees by global standards. Global figures demonstrate that by the new millenium the world’s refugee population had reached over 22 million. Over 90% of all refugee places are provided within the two-thirds world. During 1998-1999, 7,274 applications for protection were completed by the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. Of these, 979 were granted protection visas and 6,160 were refused. The entire Australian Refugee Programme provides for a total of only 12,000 places annually.
Myth: ‘They come here because they know Australia is a paradise.’
Fact: Refugee claimants face enormous bureaucratic hurdles in establishing refugee status.
Refugee claimants have fled intolerable, often life-threatening situations, due to volatile political or civil conflicts. They have left behind their family, friends, culture and often successful professional careers, fleeing only with what they can carry. Their primary focus is on ‘getting out of’, not on ‘going to’ somewhere else. When they arrive in Australia a plethora of bureaucratic demands add stress to the lives of already traumatised people. Strict application requirements, (such as the 45-day rule), lengthy review procedures, criteria based on proof of personal character/health, and application costs are some of the official hurdles they face. The difficulties continue with the need to secure work permits, organise appropriate accommodation, and overcome language differences, as well as limited access to legal advice, lack of family/social networks and health/counselling services.
Myth: ‘Refugee Claimants are ‘queue jumpers’
Fact: There is no queue! In many countries, especially those torn by civil war or strife, Australia has no diplomatic presence, therefore refugees cannot apply for a visa to enter Australia. Clearly, there is no Australian-organised queue for such people. In some cases, refugees may have fled to a nearby country and may later seek to enter Australia from there. However, for many refugee claimants it is either impractical or impossible to go first to a neighbouring country, and then seek resettlement from there. This can be because these countries are not signatories to the international laws that would ensure refugees protection within their borders. It could also be because they would not be safe in a neighbouring country, especially, if that country was sympathetic to the persecutory regime. In these cases, individuals may have to try to go directly to a country, such as Australia, where they can seek protection.
The Refugee Claimants Journey
Refugees come to Australia in one of two ways:
Most come under the Refugee and Special Humanitarian Program. These people are selected overseas, usually after referral from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). They enter Australia with a visa that entitles them to permanent residency, and to apply for citizenship after the prescribed waiting period.
Other refugees apply for asylum once they are in Australia. They are referred to as refugee claimants or asylum seekers. Refugee claimants who come to Australia have usually entered with a visitors’, student or other temporary visa. Some arrive with no documents or with false documents.
According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 14, everyone has the right to seek and enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. This right guarantees a refugee has protection from being sent back to their country of origin against their will, and access to employment, education, the legal system and civil rights in their chosen country of settlement. However, refugee claimants are not guaranteed these basic rights until their refugee status is officially recognised.
The Australian Government’s official recognition of a person’s refugee status does not make them a refugee, as the very act of seeking asylum from persecution immediately categorises them as a refugee. Therefore it is important that refugee claimants are treated as refugees, until proven otherwise. Failure to do so can mean that a country does not meet its legal obligations to genuine refugees. In applying for protection these people are exercising their right, under international law, to seek safety from persecution.
It can take up to three or more years for a refugee claimant to be officially recognised as a refugee. During that time they undergo a prolonged and complex process of application which can involve a number of reviews and appeals. If they lodge an application within 45 days of arriving in Australia (which many do not for legitimate reasons) they are given permission to work. However, if their case goes under review or is awaiting a decision on appeal then their work permission is denied. This means they no longer have a right to Medicare or to any government support through Centrelink, and therefore have no way of securing housing, education, food, clothing, transport, or any of the basic necessities while they await a decision.
These restrictions have had a devastating impact as they have caused severe hardship for many refugee claimants. Those affected by this rule describe a feeling of being persecuted by the restrictions in ways that are similar to the circumstances from which they fled. For example, one purpose of torture is to shame and humiliate the victim so that their identity and sense of self is destroyed. The effect of the restrictions often leads to the refugee claimant feeling a prolonged sense of shame, humiliation, and lack of identity in the country in which they have sought refuge. Added to this is the stress and uncertainty of the outcome of their application. The reality for many refugee claimants is that they may never be able to return to their country of origin, no matter what the circumstances. If they are returned forcibly by the Australian government they face persecution, or possibly death.
The Application Process
1. Primary Stage: Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs (DIMA)
A refugee claimant (asylum seeker) lodges an application for protection with the Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. During this time they are given a ‘Bridging Visa’ that allows them to remain legally in the country while their application for refugee status is being considered. Their written application is assessed by a case officer of DIMA to determine whether the person’s claims fit the criteria for refugee status. The time taken to make a decision on these applications can be anything from a month to three years. There are only two possible outcomes from the primary stage: the application is accepted and the refugee claimant is granted refugee status; or the application is rejected.
In 1997, in a bid to reduce non-genuine applications for refugee status, statutory rule 109 or the 45-Day Rule was brought in. It removed work rights and access to health care for refugee claimants who did not apply for protection within 45 days of their arrival in Australia. It was assumed that by virtue of their late application, people who lodge a Protection Visa application after they have been 45 days in Australia are non-genuine applicants.
However, genuine refugee claimants very often lodge their applications well after the 45 day period.
There are a number of legitimate reasons for this which include:
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Fear (an instinctive response to fear is to try to keep a low profile)
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Unfamiliarity with the new environment/system
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Language difficulties
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Mental health issues (eg. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)
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Fear of authorities and government institutions (due to traumatic experiences in their country of origin)
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Lack of knowledge of the Protection Visa system and how to make a Protection Visa application
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Misinformation from well-meaning family or community members
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The need to seek asylum arise after they have already been in Australia for some time (particularly those on a student visa)
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Many applicants lodge an application as a last resort after waiting as long as they can for the situation to improve in their own country
2. Review Stage: Refugee Review Tribunal (RRT)
If a claim is rejected at the primary stage, the refugee claimant then has the option to lodge an application for a review of this decision. They have 28 days to do this, after which time they are deemed to be illegally in the country. The body responsible for reviewing applications is the Refugee Review Tribunal (RRT). It is the RRT member’s task to review the DIMA primary decision using exactly the same criteria: the person’s status as a refugee in accordance with the United Nation’s definition. In most cases applicants receive an oral hearing.
There are two possible outcomes from the review stage: the RRT overturns the original decision and grants refugee status – this happens in approximately 10% of cases; or the RRT upholds the decision and the applicant is again rejected. If an application is rejected by the RRT, in accordance with regulation 7.6 of statutory rule 210, it is mandatory for those awaiting decisions on appeals to the Minister for Immigration or the Court to also be denied permission to work.
3. Last Review Stage: Ministerial or High Court Appeal
The Minister of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs has the power to intervene if the RRT has rejected a review application and it is believed to be in the public interest.
Also the Federal Court has the power to either uphold a refusal or to direct that the applicant be reassessed.
Many of those seeking the Minister’s intervention in their cases on humanitarian grounds are amongst the most vulnerable of refugee claimants; living in difficult circumstances due to having lost work permission and having endured a prolonged application process. Some are survivors of torture but for one reason or another their cases did not fit the exacting definition of a refugee – despite them having very strong humanitarian reasons for not returning to their country of origin.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
(The following list does not comprise the complete Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Included are 18 of the 30 articles which compile the Declaration. The articles selected are those which cover a majority of the breaches of human rights suffered by refugee claimants both in their country of origin and in Australia.)
Article 1:
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act toward one another in the spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2:
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth and or other status.
Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 3:
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 4:
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5:
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment.
Article 6:
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7:
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 8:
Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution of law.
Article 9:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 12:
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 14:
(1) Everyone has the right to seek and enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 15:
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his/her nationality.
Article 18:
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19:
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Article 22:
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realisation, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organisation and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
Article 23:
(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
Article 25:
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of him/herself and of his/her family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 29:
(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
Myths propagated by politicians:
They have entered Australia illegally.
Entering Australia without a visa is not a crime under Australian law. Under international law refugees have the right to seek asylum using any available means. By branding refugees in Australia ‘illegal’ the government is implying that the prolonged detention of people seeking refuge from repressive regimes in prison-like conditions is an appropriate response to their ‘criminal’ behaviour.
In fact the largest illegal population residing in Australia consists of the 54,800 visitors who have overstayed their visas. The total number of people arriving in Australia without visas since 1989 was 10,254.
Australia is facing a flood of refugees.
The total number of asylum applications submitted in Australia during 1999 was 9,450. This is a relatively low number compared to most countries in the developed world. During the same year, the UK received 71,150 applications from asylum seekers, and Germany got 95,110.
Entire villages in the Middle East are planning to resettle in Australia.
This myth was first put about by the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, the Honourable Phillip Ruddock. When questioned concerning the source of this information he cited travellers tales.
Most refugees are in fact economic opportunists seeking ‘the good life’ in Australia.
In fact, even according to the harsh criteria used by DIMA officials in assessing applications the majority of applicants are found to be genuine refugees fleeing persecution in the home countries. Most of the lately arrived refugees come from Iraq and Afghanistan – notoriously repressive countries renown for their mistreatment of minority groups. Most refugees would much rather remain in their home countries where they are familiar with the language and culture and have families and are driven to seek asylum abroad out of desperate necessity.
Refugees are ‘double-dipping’ by claiming social security and then appealing for help from charities.
Refugees released from the detention centres once their asylum applications are found to be genuine are, in fact, deprived of all access to mainstream social security services including the Newstart allowance (dole), English language training (granted to all migrants to Australia upon arrival) and settlement services. Although they may apply for Rent Assistance and the Special Benefit in cases of extreme poverty, their eligibility is stringently determined and reviewed every six months.
Upon their release they are normally dropped off at a cheap hostel and given around $200 with no further support. No accommodation or job-seeking assistance is provided and many can only find shelter in churches and community centres. As such most refugees are forced to turn to charity organisations to secure such basic necessities as clothing, furniture, kitchen appliances and cooking utensils.
Mandatory detention is necessary to ensure the health of refugees before they are released into the Australian community.
While initial screening of refugees for diseases such as tuberculosis is obviously a necessity, none of the tests require that they be incarcerated for months or years on end. In fact, extended detention in the centres overcrowded unhealthy conditions increase the chances of contracting contagious diseases.
Refugees who arrive without visas are ‘queue jumping’ ahead of other migrants.
Actually, the process of reviewing refugee applications is independent of the government’s wider immigration program. The Migration Program for 2000-01 reserved 40,000 places for skilled migrants, 34,400 for family reunions and 12,000 for the humanitarian program of which 8,000 will be used for those in humanitarian need offshore while the remainder, along with any unused places, are for refugees in Australia already in Australia. Only 4,174 people arrived on boats in 1999-2000.
In Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan, there is no Australian Embassy for a queue to form at!
Refugees send money out of Australia to their families.
While there is no evidence for this claim, there is probably some truth to it. On October 1999 the government abolished the right of refugees to the Permanent Residency under which they had the right to apply for admission for their families and replaced it with the three year Temporary Visa Permit. As a result the wives and children of many refugees have been left to fend for themselves in their country of origin. Given this state of affairs, it is possible that many refugees would wish to send their families what aid they can.
Refugees are wealthy, they arrive with American dollars and gold bars.
In war torn countries, from where refugees usually arrive, it is the common practice to liquidate all the usual assets (property, jewellery, cars, machinery, stock) into something that has universal value (US dollars and gold) that cannot be easily destroyed. People sell everything they own; this may include all of the property that has been accumulated by their ancestors over several generations. This is then used in an ‘all or nothing’ attempt to escape the country. Occasionally a few refugees do arrive with some gold or American dollars; however, this usually represents several lifetimes worth of work and saving.
MYTHS ABOUT REFUGEES AND ASYLUM SEEKERS
The circulation of myths and misinformation is one of the biggest barriers to understanding the issues affecting refugees and asylum seekers. Myths create confusion and can fuel conflict, resentment and disharmony.
This page aims to highlight the common myths about refugees and asylum seekers and correct the record for people seeking accurate information about issues relating to refugees and asylum seekers.
Media blunders
Refugees, asylum seekers and the Australians who support them have had to endure countless media articles full of inaccuracies and stereotypes. But sometimes media organisations go one step further and publish information which is blatantly false. Our media blunders page aims to draw attention to such outrageous media blunders and to set the record straight. Click here to visit the media blunders page.
Hoax e-mails about Centrelink benefits
In October 2007, RCOA issued a media release calling on Australians to ignore a hoax e-mail which claimed that refugees receive more money from Centrelink than age pensioners. Recently, a new hoax e-mail, which claims that that illegal immigrants and refugees receive higher rates of payment under a number of Centrelink programs, has also been circulated. Both e-mails are blatantly inaccurate and intended to create resentment towards refugees and fuel disharmony.
The Refugee Council recommends that anyone receiving these hoax emails should delete them and inform the person who forwarded the email that the information it contains is false. A media release containing updated information and responding to the claims in the new hoax e-mail can be downloaded here.
Why the e-mails are inaccurate
Myth: Refugees can receive social security payments simply because they are refugees.
Fact: A refugee who has permanent residency in Australia receives exactly the same social security benefit as any Australian-born person in the same circumstances. Refugees apply for social security through Centrelink like everyone else and are assessed for the different payment options in the same way as everyone else. There are no separate Centrelink allowances that one can receive simply by virtue of being a refugee, nor do refugees receive cash payments under either the Integrated Humanitarian Settlement Strategy (IHSS) or the Settlement Grants Program (SGP).
Myth: A single refugee receives $1458 more per month than an age pensioner.
Fact: A single person applying for Special Benefit or the Newstart Allowance (whether or not he or she is a refugee) will receive $456 per fortnight, whereas a single person on an Age Pension payment will receive a fortnightly payment of $671.90. A single age pensioner therefore receives over $200 more per fortnight more than a single refugee (or a single Australian-born person) who qualifies for Special Benefit or Newstart – not $1458 per month less, as claimed in the first hoax email. Australian citizens and permanent residents with dependent children on lower to middle incomes (including refugees) may also be eligible to receive Family Tax Benefits or Parenting Payments, however none of these allowances are paid at a higher rate than the single age pension.
Myth: Refugees receive higher rates of payment under Centrelink programs than age pensioners or other Australians.
Fact: Centrelink payments are calculated at exactly the same rate for both refugees and non-refugees (for instance, a single Australian-born person and a single refugee on the Newstart allowance would both receive exactly the same fortnightly payment of $456). The hoax e-mail which claims that illegal immigrants and refugees receive higher rates of payment than age pensioners under a number of Centrelink programs, including the Partner Allowance and the Hardship Allowance, quotes figures which are grossly inaccurate. For instance, a single person on an Age Pension payment receives a fortnightly payment of $671.90, not $253 as claimed in the email, and the maximum payment for the Partner Allowance is $411.50, not $472.50.
Myth: Asylum seekers can receive Centrelink payments.
Fact: Asylum seekers are not entitled to the same forms of financial support as citizens or permanent residents. The Asylum Seeker Assistance (ASA) Scheme provides assistance to eligible asylum seekers who are in the process of having their refugee status determined. The ASA Scheme offers income support to cover basic living expenses, paid at 89 per cent of the Centrelink Special Benefit. This would equal approximately $405.84 per fortnight for a single asylum seeker – over $260 less than the single age pension.
Myth: Illegal immigrants can receive Centrelink payments.
Fact: In general, only Australian citizens and permanent residents can receive social security payments from Centrelink and illegal immigrants would certainly not be entitled to such support. It is also factually incorrect to refer to either refugees or asylum seekers as “illegal immigrants”. Recognised refugees in Australia by definition hold either a Refugee Visa or a Protection Visa, both of which entitle the holder to permanent residency. Asylum seekers – regardless of how they arrive in Australia – are permitted under Australian and international law to enter Australia for the purpose of seeking asylum, therefore asylum seekers have not broken any law and should not be referred to as illegal immigrants.
http://www.safecom.org.au/refugees1.htm
http://www.refugeeaction.org/policy/refugee_myths.htm
http://www.refugeeaction.org/policy/myths.htm
http://www.brisbane-stories.webcentral.com.au/scatteredpeople/03_others/02_facts.htm
http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/arp/facts-02.html
http://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/current/myths.html
http://www.rac-vic.org/html/myths.htm
https://theantibogan.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/debunking-myths-about-refugees-and-asylum-seekers/
Just demolishing a few points from Mutation. It’s not difficult.
“Whats (sic) all the fuss about being Racist? Its simply the result of picking a side just as you have chosen a side, the far left as it happens but a side none the less.”
Your “racism” which you seem to fondly believe is an “opinion” is a loathsome and ignorant ideology that has demonstrated only too well in the past its penchant for hatred and murder. Furthermore it has no basis in a modern world where science has proved that differences between groups of human beings are miniscule at most and fast disappearing, where modern communication technology, free trade and ease of travel is making the world one whether you like it or not and which does not belong in any country, let alone one which is a settler society.
“Hypothetically speaking were those boats full of people rushing here to join the APP and not your socialist handout paradise at my expense would you be in such a rush to welcome them?”
Grasping at straws now aren’t you? The APP is never going to be more than a fringe group, a tiny eccentric bunch of closet Fascists desperately hanging on to what they wrongly believed was the way this country was. And history tells us they are so wrong.
Name one post-war Fascist regime which has succeeded. Here, I’ll help you..
Apartheid South Africa FAIL
Argentina under the military FAIL
Chile under Pinochet FAIL
Greece under the colonels FAIL
Burma’s current regime FAIL
North Korea FAIL
“One further thought for you have you ever stopped to ask why people would be so against the current immigration/Refugee policies or is it just so much easier for you to class them all as mindless bogans and avoid asking any hard questions?”
What “people”? Andrew Bolt? Piers Akerman?
how is a discussion about whether these people are genuine refugees even relevant?????
when one expresses an INFORMED opinion that’s fine. the collection of fuckwittery displayed in the FB posts collected is disgusting. it’s also pretty lame that some who have appeared on here to tell why they dont want refugees (illegals???LOL) have completely failed to condemn the posts above.
Some people are so ignorant and plain stupid. Do the people leaving these comments realise that infact their ancestors were most likely ‘boat people’ The fact is,unless you are 100% aboriginal,you are not australian in the sense you ‘were not here first’,which seems to be their real problem. True some gangs etc in syd/melb especially are from overseas countries,but if you have seen any of the bogans hanging around pubs at 3am,you will find they are caucasian.
People really need to wake up,its just intolerant bogans raising more intolerant bogans.
While i dont agree with illegally entering the country,I know if i were living in a country were women were raped and killed,familys slaughtered like animals and children sold for slavery- i would do WHATEVER it would take to save myself/family.
People are so quick to judge until the shoe is on the other foot.
Good comment, Jess.
I believe the youths in the gangs you speak of are largly forced into joining these gangs from fear, to get protection, and to feel included and a part of something.
Racist freaks complain about refugees not wanting to take part in Australian culture and embracing Australian ways of life… yet in the next breath threaten violence against refugees trying to do just that. Needless to say, they’re just way too stupid to see the hypocricy in this.
If the sensible Australian public and the Australian government made more of an effort to make ALL Australians, including the newest of us and those with traumatic backgrounds, I really doubt we’d have any problem with gangs at all, at least not race based ones.
*hypocrisy
@ Antibogan
You really believe that crap dont you? I thought you were just someone who likes to argue but you actually believe all that verbal diarrhea and you expect others too as well. Good luck with that!
@ Josh
Good attempt to avoid the question about hypothetical boatloads of nationalists! Did you not answer it because you dont have an answer or because i was right?
Why would i want to name a post-war Fascist regime? I am not proposing any such thing all i propose is a return to a more balanced approach to immigration and population and an opposition to you globalist multicultural nightmare and politically correct bile!
You also totally failed to show that you default “Antiracist” stance has any meaning beyond the socialist dogma cloud your head is in!
Why (if it can reasonably demonstrated that a race or culture is either not compatible or prone to behavior you cant tolerate) is it wrong to avoid having these groups enter your country in numbers that will eventually grant them political & cultural influence? You might welcome becoming a minority in your own country (well i certainly want you to become a minority) but many of us dont wish that for ourselves or our children. You call it Fascist i call it common sense!
It didn’t get an answer because it’s a strawman argument.
Nationalists are rather yesterday don’t you think? And in this case a cover-up for neo-Nazis. After all Jim Saleam uses the term for his groupuscule as does your own leader.
I would rather have a million hard-working decent asylum seekers in this country than one intolerant racist spouting Fascist demagoguery. Some of Australia’s greatest success stories were either refugees or the children of refugees.
Australia’s greatest failures are its small group of loud-mouthed clueless bigots. Where’s your Fascist success stories? Dead in a bunker in Berlin or hanging from a lightpole in Milan.
The facts and figures surrounding asylum seekers as measured against the myths is ‘verbal diarhhoea’ to you? So you think comments like ‘they’re all terrorists’ is the more rational comment compared to the Australian Government’s statistics on the percentage of people who are found to be genuine asylum seekers? You think comments like ‘they’re sucking our welfare and getting more than our pensioners’ are more swallowable than the actual figures provided by Centrelink and the Immigration Department? You think rhetoric regarding ‘the floodgates opening’ is more reasoned than the actual figures showing that not only are we taking two thirds less than the expected amount of asylum seekers per year, but that asylum seeker arrivals were more frequent when Howard was in power and that asylum seekers make up less than 3% of our overall immigration anyway.
So where’s the ‘verbal ‘diarhhoea” Mutation? Which of these facts and statistics can you disprove? Or are you confident that your frightened, misinformed, xenophobic and juvenile perspective is totally justified because you assume that any person who stands for humane treatment of people fleeing persecution is somehow less patriotic and less Australian than you?
I gave you a boatload of evidence disproving the beliefs you so desperately want to hold onto in order to link you with the people who you want to associate with, and rather than disprove or argue against even one aspect of it, you dismissed it all as ‘verbal diarhhoea’.
You are a fucking disgrace. A piece of unAustralian shit. You’re someone who wouldn’t understand the first thing about justifying your existence and working towards cohesion. You thrive on tension and hate, and you create/believe mistruths to blindly support your position. You’re an enormous waste of fucking space and until you open your eyes and grow a conscience, you’re not Australian – you aren’t even fucking human. Any offspring of yours is a waste of space and most likely destined to become as hopeless and socially awkward as yourself.
You just loooove the spin and fear, don’t you mutation? Oh the drama of it all.
So scared of being “swamped” by all these scary people who look different to you. Yes, I’m sure without your xenophobic bigotry, the number of these terrorist boat people would surely go up from the current few thousand to several million… That seems an entirely reasonable argument to justify your racism… :S
Once again, you’re unAustralian. Scum like you are not welcome in this wonderful country.
@ Josh
Your not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box and your not big on facts either, so i will help you out!
1 – You still didnt answer the question and prattling on about strawmen does not count
2 – I am no bigger supporter of Dr Jim than you are so
3 – I have no leader. Get that real straight!
4 – I am no king of Nazi Neo or otherwise! They would call me brother no sooner than you would !
5 – I never said immigrants could not be successful or productive half mu own family proves that. I just say enough is enough. I would have the same stance on Boat people if they were from the UK.
6 – “Fascist success stories”? Why would i have any of these I am not a Fascist! Do you have some Socialist success stories while we are at it?
@ Antibogan
1 -I didnt say they were all terrorists I just said they were not welcome and i dont believe most are genuine. Make a note here that if your lot had not made such a slather of allowing in anyone and everyone i would be more than happy to welcome genuine refugees. You created Me !
2 – Can you remind me again where i said you were not Patriotic or Australian? My memory is not what it used to be!
3 – You dont think i read all the crap you posted do you?
4 – You have quiet a temper dont you? And calling me “not human” makes it just a little hard for you to claim you are at all tolerant or inclusive. You tolerate only what you deem is appropriate and you ruthlessly attack anything that does not fit neatly within you little paradigm! Abusing my children is a perfect summation of your moral position. You are a sad and bitter little child with anger management issues best treated by a professional. You are so desperate to make a point you blame me for everything said her by others untroubled by the facts or rationality.Grow up you evil little man!
@JaydenC
Me love drama? Hardly It has nothing to do with them looking different though you never bothered to ask what my objection was. You simply assume that because i dont share your view i must be some evil Nazi Racist. How convenient for you. I wish everything was so clear cut for me though i clearly dont have your intellect !
Who are you to tell me I am not Australian or welcome in my own country, get a brain.
What makes a child like you think you have what it takes to do anything about it. You mouth is writing cheques your body cant cash!
I’m not obliged to provide you with anything. Amazing how Fascists want us to produce facts yet refuse to do so themselves, preferring to continue to push their mythologies.
AB has posted material from AHRC which
comprehensively demolishes everything you have said.
And there is only one race. It’s called the human race. And certain members of the human race, irrespective of nationality and culture, behave in a criminal fashion. Most of them do so for socio-economic reasons, or because of mental illness. This pattern is universal.
But it may interest you to know that the largest group represented in our prison system is…white Anglo males. Simply because there are more of them in the population as a whole than any other group of males.
Hi Matt. You’re still here, for reasons unknown.
1. Maybe you didn’t say that all refugees were terrorists, but a lot of the (unfounded) opinion in the bogan community is that they are all Muslim, and thus all terrorists. But now you’re saying that they’re not welcome because they aren’t genuine? I know you didn’t read any of the facts I posted because you have an aversion to facts, but over 90% are deemed (through the ‘screening’ process) to be genuine asylum seekers. If you accept this, then are they welcome? Or will you deny this fact? Or are they not welcome simply because they aren’t white?
2. You imply that people who are not ready to stand up and oppose asylum seekers have no interest in ‘protecting’ our country. You make this implication through your beliefs that refugees are not genuine, and that they are coming here with intentions of either taking over, stealing jobs or stealing welfare. All of which are disproved, if you bother to read any of the information that I provided.
3. I never thought for a minute that you would. But after I’d put it all together, I read over it. It took me under ten minutes. Ten fucking minutes to open your puny fucking mind. And if you want to deny any of the information there, then maybe you would be worth debating with. But you can’t, and so you won’t read it. Because ignorance is bliss, isn’t it. A life lived in fear isn’t much of a life mate.
4. I’ve got a massive temper and an extreme intolerance to bogan fucktards like you. I don’t for a minute pretend to be tolerant of people like you with the views you have. I have no interest in building bridges with you if you won’t even come to the party and read all of the information that completely undermines your narrow minded position on the matters you are most vocal about. I have no qualms insulting your children as I’ve never met them and, like your perspectives on the refugees, am making assumptions on the incredibly small amount of information/knowledge that I have about them. If they turn out anything like you then they will be complete failures, living lives ruled by fear of the other, completely unable to feel social cohesion with anyone who has an accent or darker skin. I’m bitter, yes. But not sad, and I need no help. I’m knowledgeable about the things I’m outspoken on, unlike you, and my anger is channeled. Expressing my extreme contempt for dumb cunts like you is no indication of ‘anger management’ problems. I am completely in control of my rage and I am trying to make it obvious that it is directed at people like you for good reason.
Unless you would like to argue any of the points from the debunking of the myths on asylum seekers and refugees that I provided, there is no point going another round with me. There are no points awarded, no victories or defeats to be had arguing with me. We (theantibogan authors and I) have no intention of ceasing what we are doing because it is upsetting someone like you, who has no opposition regarding shooting/bombing/drowning human beings in extreme need.
@ Antibogan
The operative word is “deemed” and indeed they are deemmed as such, I just dont accept the screening process, the people or ideology behind it and my greatest objection is that the people most likely to be effected by their little social engineering experiment were not consulted!
No i did not bother to read the reams of stuff you posted nor am i about to rely on your assertion that it is all fact.
Who is living in fear? Stop projecting !
You really do have delusions of relevance dont you . I didnt come here to convert you to my way of thinking I didnt come here to stop you I wouldnt bother. Stopping you is like stopping a clock a mindless automaton traveling a pre programed path incapable of perceiving anything outside the endless tick tock tick tockof your little dogma bubble. My only point of coming here was to annoy you and an easier task i cant imagine. You are covered in little Pavlovian response buttons and react like the irrelevant fool you are. I might read through the pile of stuff you posted but i really do have better things to do so dont hold your breath. Why would i want to annoy you? Simple i find offensive your attitude that its OK to tell me what to think and even more offensive that you tell me what I think. I would have a problem with being a racist if I was one. I wouldnt have a problem being called a Nazi if i was one and I wouldnt have a problem being called a Fascist if I was one but sadly for you I am none of the above and by calling be all that and worse you positivly prove what you are! I cant believe you kiss your mother with that mouth either.
You go on and on about my hate and fear and all sorts of imagined & projected crap but the truth is very different to what you imagine but you wouldn’t be interested in the truth now would you.
P.S. I just read your mammoth post and 90% of it seems to refute stuff I never said so I class it as irrelevant. I dont know or care if you “facts” about welfare rorts etc are true or not and i dont realy care. The bulk of the rest was an extract from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights a document I dont recognize drafted by an Organization I dont recognize nor do I approve of or recognize Australia being a signatory to it primarily because wait for it, there was no consultation with the public no frank debate about the relative merits and no discussion as to the motivations of those who drafted it or proposed the existence of the UN in the first place!
My objection has nothing to do with race though i openly admit I have objection to importing some cultural elements. I also stated I would object to boatloads or plane loads of immigrants from Europe or the UK yet somehow that still makes me a racist! Exactly how can I be a Racist If i object equally to all. My problem is with Immigration policy, planned population growth and the total lack of consultation with the people. Race does not come into it!Of course you can ask my Vietnamese wife if I am a racist but I dont think she would reply very politely. She is no more fond of Leftists ideologues than I am, something about here family being shot to shit by communists you might have heard about that !
You in your own way are no different to they, totally convinced by the self evident truth of what you say and totally sure that all who oppose you are fundamentally wrong and not worthy of consideration. It giver you so you think the moral authority to enforce you view onto them or if they resist sweep them aside and do as you wish. The Irony of the situation by doing so you free me from my moral restraint of treating you with respect and by that I mean that I am no longer compelled to treat you as a Human since you have declared me not to be one.
Ye reap what ye sow!
Mutation
Refugee claimants have fled intolerable, often life-threatening situations, due to volatile political or civil conflicts. They have left behind their family, friends, culture and often successful professional careers, fleeing only with what they can carry. Their primary focus is on ‘getting out of’, not on ‘going to’ somewhere else. When they arrive in Australia a plethora of bureaucratic demands add stress to the lives of already traumatised people. Strict application requirements, (such as the 45-day rule), lengthy review procedures, criteria based on proof of personal character/health, and application costs are some of the official hurdles they face. The difficulties continue with the need to secure work permits, organise appropriate accommodation, and overcome language differences, as well as limited access to legal advice, lack of family/social networks and health/counselling services.
So when you say that you disagree with them being ‘deemed’ genuine refugees/people seeking asylum, you are in fact saying that these people have more than enough opportunity to either leave their country unopposed, without being threatened, incarcerated or killed and that all they need to do is pop down to their local immigration office or jump on the Internet, fill out some papers and buy a plane ticket. And you’re also implying that the only reason they have for leaving their families and their careers is because Australia will give them the dole and a housing commission place to stay for an undefined length of time.
So, with your logic (ie. that refugees and asylum seekers are not genuine and could have come here another way), you’re suggesting that even though they had the choice of joining the (non-existent) ‘queue’ and waiting a few relaxed years to be processed (by the very same people you deny are doing their job properly by ‘deeming’ refugees and asylum seekers to be genuine), they instead:
* sell all of their belongings to pay a people smuggler;
* say goodbye (possibly forever) to whatever family they’ve left behind;
* climb aboard a vessel that either will not make it to its destination, or will certainly be intercepted and its occupants taken into detention for up to a decade;
* risk being sent all the way back home via that same vessel and then captured by the very authorities that they were running from, which would result in any number of disastrous/fatal consequences.
Next.
So you’re anti ALL immigration are you? Or would at least like to see it capped. Regardless of your position on just how many are needed and not needed in this country, you were given an opportunity to oppose the people exposed by this article (that we are now commenting on), who endorse the killing of human beings as though it’s some kind of game, or that they will somehow be personally affected by the >3% of our overall immigration intake. You were given several opportunities to be a humanitarian voice that also had a position on immigration prevention, but not once did you offer any life.
You now claim that you’re only here to ‘annoy’ us, when first of all, you were here to defend some trashy bogan chick who never even asked for your help. But if this is true, consider how annoying it would be for your posts (that you’ve no doubt spent much longer on typing than reading any information regarding immigration or asylum seekers) to be all deleted. The hours you’ve put in, trying to clarify that you aren’t a racist, and that you aren’t ignorant, when in actual fact you are, could be thrown away simply because you’re not here to talk about the issues, but to ‘annoy’. And you call us juvenile. Beware the spam hammer.
You say your objections have nothing to do with race, yet you’ve offered no evidence to support your claims that refugees and asylum seekers are people who are actually not fleeing persecution, but simply throwing their lives away to rort our country and take advantage of a miserly Centrelink handout. If you are not racist, you are at the very least ignorant and intolerant, and those are the very roots of racism. Oh and don’t bother talking about your Vietnamese wife – it doesn’t excuse you from racism. You’re like every other fuckstick that says “I’m not racist because I have an Asian friend… But…”. Just because you have a sexual fetish for Asian women doesn’t mean you’re incapable of seeing Asian people as inferior – or as a threat.
Finally – we don’t need nor crave your politeness, or that you treat us like ‘Humans’ (why this word is capatalised is unknown). But if you want to keep posting away, you had better come up with some kind of logic soon.
_______________________________________
A brief history of refugee policy in Australia
To understand how we have arrived where we are today, it is useful to look briefly at the historical and political aspects of Australia’s response to refugees. Australia has been involved in the international response to the refugee situation since 1921. The early response of the government was guarded and strongly influenced by the White Australia Policy which dominated Australia’s immigration policy until 1975. Only 3 500 refugees were settled in Australia between 1921 and 1938 (Blakeney, 1985). In the mid 1930s, in response to events in Europe, Australia agreed to accept 15 000 Jewish refugees, but only 7 000 had been admitted before World War ll broke out. When the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations (ECOSOC) established an International Refugee Organisation (IRO) in 1946, to deal with the European refugee crisis, Australia did not support the motion and refrained from voting in the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA). It was feared that this could involve accepting refugees from non-Caucasian stock. However, with increasing paranoia in Australia about invasion by ‘the yellow hordes’ from the north following the war, the catch cry of ‘populate or perish’ was born. As migrants from the UK and its colonies could not be recruited fast enough to supply the demand, Minister Caldwell ‘became increasingly aware of the splendid human material to be found in the refugee camps’ (Markus, 1984).
Between 1947 and 1952, 181 700 refugee and displaced persons entered Australia through this scheme and related non-government organisation (NGO) sponsorships. The stringent health requirements set by Australia earned the country the international reputation of using refugees as ‘grist for the labour mill’. The intake was seen to satisfy Australia’s labour requirement rather than for humanitarian reasons and avoided responsibility for ‘hard to place’ refugees. This set the tone for Australia’s future refugee policy. However, while the Australian Government gained a reputation for being intransigent in its attitude towards refugees, in contrast, Australian NGOs were recognised for a high level of involvement in the issues both at home and on the international stage. This included lobbying and advocacy on behalf of refugees and the establishment of overseas aid programs and resettlement programs in Australia (National Population Council, 1991, p. 67).
The Australian Government’s attitude changed with the success of the settlement policy in assisting to fill the immigration needs of the country. Australia was actively involved in the establishment of UNHCR in 1950 and was one of the first nations to ratify the 1951 Convention on Refugees. When the Intergovernmental Commission for European Migration (ICEM) was formed in 1952, Australia became a major player and accepted 199 000 refugees through this program between 1953 and 1973. During this period, waves of refugees were generated from successive wars and conflicts. These people, however, were not protected by the 1951 Convention, which only applied to those who became refugees due to events prior to that date (UN, 1984). In 1967, a protocol was drawn up which removed the early geographic limitations from the 1951 Convention. Australia did not sign this protocol until 1973 (National Population Council, 1991).
By far the largest intake of refugees to Australia since 1975 has been from Vietnam, with smaller intakes from Cambodia and Laos. The fall of Saigon in 1975 promoted the outflow of over one million Vietnamese, who fled in small boats to whichever neighbouring country would accept them. They were dubbed “the boat people”
In May 1977, a new refugee policy was announced, covering procedures for designating refugee situations, assessment of Australia’s capacity to accept refugees, encouragement of voluntary agencies to participate in refugee resettlement, and the strengthening of the Department of Immigration and Ethnic Affairs’ (DIEA) Refugee Unit (Bailey, 1977). As refugee numbers grew, increasing unease about the process resulted in an international conference being hosted by the UN in 1979 to seek a solution. An agreement, usually referred to as the Moratorium, was reached between the USA, UNHCR and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam, whereby guarantees of resettlement were given in return for commitments to contain the outflow of refugees and provide aid to countries of first asylum (Viviani, 1984).
The outflow of refugees from Indo-China led to an effort by UNHCR to establish a coordinated resettlement program for people living in the camps. A system of refugee selection was instigated and overseas posts were responsible for identifying those refugees considered to be most suitable for resettlement. 1979 also saw the negotiation of an Orderly Departure Program (ODP) between UNHCR and the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to promote the departure of migrants from Vietnam to countries of resettlement without the necessity of fleeing by boat. Australia expected that, if it received refugees from camps in Thailand and Malaysia, then those countries would not send refugees on to Australia in boats.
Australia, along with other resettlement countries, introduced a system of refugee selection in 1979. This was the beginning of the ‘off shore” refugee policy. Australian officials visited refugee camps and centres, and along with officials from UNHCR, selected people to come to Australia. Government officials were urged to select those refugees most likely to resettle successfully in Australia. These were the young, the healthy, the well educated, and people with a family support system already established. An active policy prevented selection of those with an obvious disability or those likely to require substantial social support. The many refugees who did not fit the stringent requirements of developed countries remained in the camps, often for years. The problems which had led to them not being accepted in the first place were usually exacerbated by the physically and mentally debilitating conditions of camp life (National Population Council, 1991). This is the genesis of the so-called “queue” which on shore asylum seekers are accused of jumping by the Minister for Immigration.
Subsequent and recent developments in the ways in which Australia interprets its obligations under the United Nations convention and protocol, and how we have responded to the latest wave of “boat people” are discussed in detail below. The papers in the first section of the journal pose major questions about the generation and plight of refugees in the 21st century. The second section examines some of the experiences of refugees and the response to these by service providers. The third section focuses specifically on the current stance taken by Australia. It is particularly appropriate to focus on these in an international context as the rest of the world is closely watching the actions taken by Australia. In some cases they are being used as an excuse by countries with poor human rights records to justify their actions on the grounds that they are following the lead set by Australia. In other cases, while Australia claims that the rest of the developed world is following our example (Ruddock, 2002), in fact there is strong evidence to suggest that international opinion is in fact dismayed at he action taken by Australia, a country formally regarded as one of the human rights leaders in the world.
Eileen Pittaway
Director, Centre for Refugee Research
University of New South Wales, Sydney
May 2002
Bibliography
Bailey, P. H. (chairman), (1977), Proposals for Change in the Administration and Delivery of Programs and Services, first report of the Task Force on Coordination in Welfare and Health, Canberra: AGPS.
Blakeney, M. (1985) Australia and the Jewish Refugees, 1933-1948, Croom: Helm.
Markus (1984) cited in National Population Council (NPC), (1988), A Proposed Settlement Strategy, Canberra: AGPS.
National Population Council (1991) The National Population Council’s Refugee Review July 1991, Canberra: AGPS.
Ruddock, P. 2002, ABC Radio Interview, London 20th April.
UN (1984) Report of the International Conference on Population, New York: UN.
Vivani, N. (1984), The Long Journey: Vietnamese Migration and Settlement in Australia, Melbourne: Melbourne University Press.
Yes mutation, you’re not racist or anything, you just have these bigotted opinions that are totally contradictory to any reality or fact, without offering any logical argument or reasoning of your own whatsoever….
You choose to blindly go by your own little theory that refugees aren’t genuine, it’s some sort of big social experiment.. some sort of conspiracy the people have no say in. You offer no logic behind your bigotted opinions, nothing…
And you believe this is justification for the Australian Navy to shoot/bomb/drown innocent and desperate men, women and children… or at the very least you sympathise with this sentiment since you offer no opposition to it. What a nice guy you must be…
You’re worried about white Australians being swamped by refugees to the point where they become a racial minority, yet in the next breath you say you would feel exactly the same way if the boat people were from the UK… riiight…
Most sensible Australians with an ounce of compassion agree that in fact refugees ARE welcome, and all the statistics say that an overwhelming majority of asylum seekers ARE genuine refugees fleeing real persecution. But you wouldn’t know that because you’re not one to get a few facts get in the way of a good bit of racist fear-mongering, are you?
By the way, anyone who has no opposition regarding shooting/bombing/drowning human beings in extreme need I suggest is not welcome in this country. Australia is better than that. Do you fall under this catagory? To me it looks like you do. Happy to be proved wrong.
Look, I suggest you go back and read over your original comment, have a think about some of your hypocrisy, the way you’re now trying to ‘tone down’ your xenophobia-sympathising, and have a think about how you really feel regarding Australia’s treatment of some of the most vulnerable people on earth. I think deep down you’ll see what’s right.
Half these racist Australians also probably enjoy Pad Thai or Lemon Chicken.
The other half eat kebabs and hommus after a session at the pub and then go out and abuse the very immigrants who brought these foods to this country.
No, I don’t eat Thai hommus or kebabs.
But that’s the reason quite often cited by open border rainbow loonies as to Y Aust. needs 3rd world invaders.
Jayden C : No sorry, most Australians that r like you want mass immigration- then there r those that don’t. Now your little latte sipping red mate Rudd has backflipped on the boat people thing as he knows it’s electoral suicide to carry on-business as usual.
Oh dear. More to be added to the word bank…:
* Open border rainbow loonies
* Latte sipping
* Reds
* Backflip
* Boat people
Got anything meaningful to add?
Bahahaha yes, “latte sipping” is a good one.
And those damn reds… People are so scared…
Oh and I like the “open border rainbow loonies”, that’s a new one to me.
By the way you’re kidding yourself if you seriously think you’ve never eaten or bought anything brought to us from immigrants.
Pasta, pizza, curry, stir fry, chinese food, sushi, most forms of rice, flatbreads, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc….
You people are so ignorant, and if you seriously haven’t eaten anything as exotic as pasta, well then I really do feel for you.
It defies belief that anyone with any sort of sensibility or intelligence could arrive at the end of this article and all the content of these comments, and still actually refer to refugees as “3rd world invaders”… what sort of a human being are you?? really… Obviously just another tossbag bogan who has absolutely no concern with reality beyond themselves and their little bogan social circles, absolutely no regard beyond your own small-minded, bigotted, fear-driven, unbackable opinions. It truly is sickening that these freaks exist.
Love it when you get on your rants Jayden! 😉
Jayden,
What a condescending person you are. How does someone end up like up you? Is there a course for it or are you just so blinded by your beliefs that if anyone challenges you then you brand them as small minded bigots.
P.S – I’m a racist fuckbag and I still drink from my mummy’s saggy nipples.
Lol cheers Antibogan, I can get a bit long-winded sometimes but sometimes you just gotta say what you gotta say… or something like that haha. Anyway love your work.
Jim, once again you’re using the whole “defending racism as free speech/differing opinions/etc.” approach. There is no excuse.
Maybe if someone were to challenge me with any sort of logic or reasonable argument, I might give it some more time. As it stands, the racist side of the debate has (as usual) provided nothing of substance, nothing but small-minded bigotry really.
Jayden,
No need to edit my reply this time. Just because i have a different opinon to you doesn’t mean i’m a small minded bigot. That type of thinking ended in primary school i think. I suggest you take off your blinkers at some stage. But from reading your previous replies you are unable to see two sides of a story instead you look down at and insult those who have a different view than yours.
Again you’re on the “views” bandwagon.
So you are no different to those who had a “view” about Aboriginal people that culminated in forcibly taking their children and warehousing them for abuse. You are no different to those whose “views” were that Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and homosexuals were inferior and were happy to put them into death camps. You are no different from those whose “views” were that the descendants of slaves in the US were “inferior” so could be lynched and their homes and churches set on fire with impunity.
You’re a racist Jim. Face facts.
Jim,
Once again, sympathising with racism as “just a differing opinion”.
Racism/xenophobia is not a legitimate “different opinion”, it is a small-minded, ignorant, prejudiced, bigotted way of thinking that became inappropriate decades ago.
There is no excuse for racism.
There is no excuse for xenophobia.
Racism and xenophobia have no place in a civilised country like Australia.
Besides, any reasonable, civilised person can read through these comments and see which is the more acceptable “side of the story”. Like I’ve already said, maybe if someone were to put across any sort of logical, reasonable, evidence based argument, I’d have more time for it. But no, nothing of substance, as per usual, from you racist lot. You fail. You lot have failed again and again and again in this comments thread alone. Now when are you going to grow up/give up?
Jayden,
This will be my last reply as i do have better things to do with my Friday night than bang my head against a brick wall. But the thing that you fail to grasp is that that not all racists in this country have white skin and a anglo surname. As someone who grew up in one of the more multicultral parts of Melbourne i can tell you from personal experience that racists come in all colours and more often than not they don’t have white skin. But i guess you don’t want to hear that as it doesn’t fit into your narrow view of the world.
It seems as though you’ve been banging it for quite a while, so good idea.
This blog addresses (primarily) racism from the dominant white Anglo culture, which by default, identifies itself as the superior culture.
The authors of this blog are white-Anglo Australians who do not deny the (somewhat smaller) existence of racism from non-whites in Australia, but we are denouncing those that represent us, culturally and racially. The very point is that we do not want the world and the wider population of Australia seeing white Anglo Australians as all racists. We want to be seen as a culture that pays the shit out of small pockets of inbred hicks who give the rest of us a bad name with their ignorance and intolerance for diversity.
Wow, I really fail to see how that has anything to do with this discussion whatsoever…???
When did the colour of racists come into this?? I’m pretty sure I didn’t say anything about white anglos being the only racists… And I’m a white anglo male myself, same as the AB authors I believe…
The irrelevance…
Ohhh I see, you’ve gone from saying “it’s just a different opinion so it’s okay for me to be racist” to saying “black people are racist too, therefore it’s okay for me to be racist as well”… Is this your argument? Coz I’m really struggling to see your point.
Oh well, good to see you finally piss off anyway…
What a petty little man you must be.
Speak for yourself. What kind of petty little man would sympathise with those who think we should bomb innocent women and children?
…at least I’m not racist or xenophobic.
@antibogan
Yes Still here though it is getting tiresome you know what its like trying to talk to a brick wall!
You ask a lot of questions
Yes I think there are other ports of call along the way that they dont bother to stop at for a number of reasons none of which are my or Australias problem.
Yes I am anit immigration.
Not my job to yell about people who propose blowing the boats up you do a good enough job of that. Frankly i dont think most who say so mean it they are just blowing off steam out of frustration and would be happy if the boats were just turned back or didnt arrive at all.
Now i realize you having a “Spam Hammer” and using it seem to give you a hard on but are of no interest to me. Delete my posts all that would achieve is to prove my assumptions about you.
I dont take all you present as truth for a number of reasons. Here are a few.
1 – I dont trust you
2 – I dont trust your sources
3 – I know most of the sources are willing to massage the truth to present things as they want them seen
4 – I dont have the resources to confirm if thy are accurate or not.
5 – Mostly they are not relevant and make no difference to me as I dont care who what or why i oppose immigration Period at this time.
As for my fetish for Asian women and a wonderful fetish it is by definition disproves me to be a racist.I used to have a thing for Italian women and before that it was Japanese so I guess I have a Multiracial Fetish!
Anyway dont your mob claim that race does not exist it is just a construct? If so how can one be a racist if no race exists?
Yes quiet familiar with our immigration history my first wife was Greek so my extended family is probably more colorful than yours and probably no more racist.
Hey just a thought you weren’t a skinny little asian kid at school all the skippy kids picked on were you? it would explain the chip on your shoulder and some of the small man syndrome! Or were you a nerdy anglo kid in desperate need of a cause to champion?
@JaydenC
Thanks for your opinion your razor sharp analysis has convinced me you a re 100% correct and i must mend my ways! NOT
Mate I have neither need nor desire to prove to you anything about myself you have decided all that long ago who am i to take that away from you!
Yes I eat shitloads of cuisine from all around the world so whats your point? I dont have a problem with the vast majority of immigrants to this country I love their cooking but that does not mean I am obliged to open the boarder to all and sundry because i like a good Beef Vindaloo!
Also Correct I have no interest in what happens outside the boarders of this country save the benefits of trade!
I will play devils advocate for a moment and ask a simple question. If “Once again, sympathising with racism as “just a differing opinion”.
Racism/xenophobia is not a legitimate “different opinion”, it is a small-minded, ignorant, prejudiced, bigotted way of thinking that became inappropriate decades ago.” is true is not the same statement true of all isms? Socialism, Catholicism,Environmentalism etc. Whatever side you are not on is going to look that way to you. Surely if that were not true the the self evident rightness of you view would instantly convince me i was wrong like a bolt of lightning from heaven. Yet it does not.
Mutation has a rather peculiar view of humanity. To Mutation there is only one small segment of the human race who fit the definition of “human”. And that is the small group he presumably belongs to.
And Jayden has said the same thing which I have said before and which I will say again. Racism is not an “opinion”. Racism is not a “political position”… in those instances where it pretended it was, its proponents fortunately ended up either dead at the hands of the military forces of countries who thought otherwise or on trial for crimes against humanity. Racism is not a difference in religious belief, though I notice some groups of racist cranks are trying to convince governments that they are religious organisations, with the aim of dipping their blood-stained fingers into tax revenues.
Racism is an ideology of hate and murder of people simply because they look different. Purely and simply.
“I have no interest in what happens outside the borders of this country save the benefits of trade.”
Says it all really. Absolutely no regard for anything outside your backyard. Who gives a shit if this Afghan refugee saw his parents slaughtered by a genocidal regime and escaped with her young children under gun fire? Out of sight, out of mind, ain’t that right, mutation? So ignorant.
“I don’t care who what or why I oppose immigration”
Nah I can see that. That’s what I’m talking about. So narrow-minded and bigotted. You don’t care why you’re arbitrarily prejudiced and scared of these people, and you don’t give a shit about facts or statistics, you just know that you don’t like them. Fair enough….
See this is what I’m talking about as well. You accuse us of being unable to see or accept other points of view, but you offer no argument of your own whatsoever. You say you don’t trust the AB’s sources, and just disregard everything said, yet offer no sources of your own, don’t even have the courtesty of providing any sort of logical argument, you just say you’re anti immigration. You don’t care why, and you don’t care what happens outside your own backyard.
Hi everybody
I see my name has honored your presents.
I see you would like to hassle me!
I would like to find you each and everyone of you and burn you and you’re houses down! I thing you have and issue.
No regards what so ever
Paul Toohey
Yes, your ‘presence’ has been made here. Just as you made our presence felt in other online domains. Do you see us crying about the negative press you give us on your hate site? Interesting move coming here and posting death threats on our public forum too. You realise that this website is monitored by the AFP and the HREOC, right?
Later Paul.
HTFU and grow a pair Pauly. You’re an old bloke and you sound like a sooky three-year-old.
Threats to torch people’s houses come under the extortion section of the NSW Crimes Act. You don’t even have to commit the act, the apprehension of a threat is enough for a large police officer to come knocking on your door with a “please explain”.
The last time one of you lot tried something like that was in WA and they all went to gaol. Including the conspirators.
JaydenC: Yes Jayden, the ‘open border rainbow loonies’ is a new one to you because you’ve got your head so far up your ass, & never left the precincts of Newtown your vocabulary basically extends to the two words racist & bigot, & thats about it.
Lerve those stickers, bought a big black texta yesterday 🙂 Send me some stickers (my bin has plenty of room.)
As usual it’s all about food is it? Is that the only reason u can think of? & anyone that disagrees with your open border theories is a bigot & a bogan? better that than a self loathing conceited condascending latte chardonay sipping inner city freak do gooder , that lives no where near any ‘culturally’ enriched areas that rainbow ferals like you are responsible for..
Oh & I bet you went to uni too, can I be the first to give you & your latte sipping boyfriends a big clap? I bet UR Mummy is proud of U. I bet you believed everything your commie lecturer said eh? gullible? No surely not? Well we know what happens to students that disagree with their lecturers don’t we?
Get the fire extinguisher out out before U decide- u might overheat your pea brain. ( & we gotta keep dem green house gases down) Oh yeah don’t forget to put the bong down as well. (almost forgot)
Heres an idea (put the extinguisher down 4 a sec.)
I know….., write some numbers starting with Rudds 300,000 on a round bit of paper then 400K 500k etc put a dial in the middle & give it a spin, yep that’ll do the trick. C? I can be helpful. Maybe increments of 200K would be better? No 500K ….D’oh decisions decisions.
So tell me Jayden how many should come? There r no excuses for not having an answer Jayden. Quick, better look up one of dem gov web sites 4 sum bullshit stats. I’ll be waiting 4 this one :).
“…one of dem gov web sites 4 sum bullshit stats.”
Try using facts some time. Make a nice change from the usual brain farts from you lot.
Hi Cynthia,
1. You’re a racist bogan. Have you visited our racist word bank? ‘Latte sipping’, ‘chardonnay sipping’, ‘self loathing’, ‘inner city freak’, ‘do gooder’, ‘rainbow ferals’…? You’re like a textbook racist bogan! Thanks for gracing our domain! You’re proof that racist bogans have no idea how to put together their own arguments, let alone their own insults.
2. Uni is full of commie lecturers? Good luck getting fixed by a doctor or represented by a lawyer if you’re ready to bad mouth anyone that went to Uni. You realise that there are a lot of books and information at Uni, right? Yes, you’re frightened of information that broadens the mind, but you should face your fears one day.
3. Nobody knows what you’re talking about… “write some numbers starting with Rudds (sic) 300,000 (sic) on a round bit of paper then (sic) 400K (sic) 500k (sic) etc (sic) put a dial in the middle & give it a spin, yep that” do the trick.” This makes absolutely no sense. What is going on in your mind?? Is there a small monkey clapping a cymbal repetitively up there?
4. Government websites are not full of ‘bullshit stats’. People like you have done nothing but embraced them when asylum figures have been released. The fact is that the figures have not increased over the past 14 or so years.
No idiot, those are the words we created, to define you freaks.
& you’re a text book far left wanker.
Your word bank? You idiot.
You’re the open border freaks, so answer my question how many immigrants should Australia take per annum?
Lots of books? Noooo. Wow, such perception. clearly you haven’t read any, except the socialist Alliance & Fabian instruction manuals. Piss off.
Oooh getting angry now aren’t you? It’s the elected government’s job to decide how many immigrants Australia takes, not ours. Generally speaking they do a good job. For instance the Howard Government was very generous towards prospective immigrants, and more immigrants came here during its term of office than at any other time in Australia’s history.
Prospective immigrants have to pass stringent background checks, fall into an occupational category in which there are shortages in Australia and have their qualifications mapped to AQF and be proficient in the English language.
In fact “Spurto” I doubt very much if you’d make the cut.
@Josh
Actually Josh I think we are all human, well almost all I just dont feel responsible for all the worlds problems and I dont feel flawed for not feeling that way.
I am not a globalist I am not hoping for one big happy world where we all get along and share like kids in a sandpit. If thats you thing fine but not me thanks!
Comparing a desire for tight boarder control to the Nazi atrocities of WW2 is just more of the sensationalist lefty crap you lot use as your stock and trade.
Enough with the racism you are going to wear the word out. I have demonstrated I am not a racist an frankly any number of comments from your side are as racist as anything I have heard.
@JaydenC
Yes not interested in the going on in the rest of the world as I stated earlier unless it poses a threat to Australia. I am not my brothers keeper just as surely as he is not mine! Ignorant? please use the word correctly Its not ignorance its apathy.
Simply put its not my problem and not Australia’s either for that matter.
Courtesy of providing a logical argument? No I dont see the point, we dont have a common language viewpoint or values so what you see as logic I see as dogma and Vice Versa. There is simply no popint and i have better things t do than go through endless posts that simple end in you reverting to calling me a worthless fucktard POS sub human or whatever essentially because I dont see things your way! Excuse me if i dont find that to be a productive use of mu time!
So Mutation, now that you have indicated that you don’t want to see the world as a big happy sandpit. What’s your vision of the world then?
Perhaps the reason that you are living in a first world country, and the economy to match it is the fact that globalization has allowed an out of the way nation like Australia, to have access to a broad range of intellectual resources and exert economic influence across the world, which provides jobs back home.
I would like to say that it does not make sense as to how globalisation would ruin a country. In fact, with greater concentrations of wealth, it is (the population in general) able to engage in cultural activities, or any other past time more often. Its like how many Australians are able to enjoy the footy every weekend because they have money to pay membership expenses and items like merchandise.
And there is no point in complaining about globalisation, as the ball has rolled on a bit of far and can’t be stalled, lest you endanger pretty much Australia’s economy. That’s why a world that gets along with each other, if only cordially, is a lot better than a world with drawn battle lines, or engaged in a perpetual Mexican stand-off- someone’s gotta crack and it ain’t pretty.
Enough with the part on globalisation.
“Comparing a desire for tight boarder control to the Nazi atrocities of WW2” This statement isn’t wrong nor right, its meaningless. Its like saying Margarine is only one molecule away from plastic.
You also seem to believe that you would only be interested in global events when Australia is threatened. There are global events that might prove to be beneficial to Australia in the long run. If Africa stabilizes a little longer, and Rio Tinto sets up a good operation in Guinea, who knows how many Australians might get jobs there (it’s a few, but its tax dollars going into the Aussie government.), and you seem to have the idea that Australia will be threatened- Why should one need to threaten Australia, and possibly gain anything or influence the course of events? Simply put, Australia is only a minnow between the shockwaves of China, Europe and America, and Australia plays little role in the greater scheme of things.
You say Jayden’s logic becomes dogma- which implies that Jayden is brainwashed by what you see as a leftard ideology. But when you interpret another person’s logic as dogma, there must have been brainwashing on your end to instinctively do so.
Rudy
My vision of the world? I dont have time for a decent answer to you question but I will say that I believe strongly that the efforts to make it so are driven by an ideology i dont agree with rather than a genuine desire to improve anything for anybody.
Rubbish Australia was a prosperous first world country long before the globalization movement made any impact on the world. Globalization and a move towards “One People One World Government” or whatever one might call it are not required for the free exchange of ideas between cooperative peoples!
We may of couse me talking to different points here but for me globalization is the firt step to one world government which i find an intolerable idea and the threat it poses is that should a one world govt come to pass you have two problems. Firstly I believe that government and the people driven to be part of it are inherently flawed creatures and tent far more readily to do harm than good. Anything that facilitates government having greater or wider control is bad in the extreme. The other inate problem is the inevitable risk of corruption or worse yet those in power actually thinking they know whats best and making it happen. For me nothing could more surely bring about a permanent and totally dystopian society/world. Dont know about you but that doesnt exactly excite me in a good way !
You take me too literaslly I am and I believe Australia should be aware of all events and situations in the world that pose a positive or negative force I simple think we should only involve ourselves in things that have a net positive benefit for Australia. As an example take Iraq, very interesting but a seriously stupid thing with which to involve ourselves!
I dont as you suggest advocate a perpetual Mexican stand-off I would rather see those who have developed the restrain to resist inflicting their choices on other have a military advantage an order of magnitude greater than required thus negating even the possibility of conflict with others.
Brainwashing I doubt but I will admit to a possible Pavlovian response or two when I see patterns of thought and behavior over and over again that I recognize as part of a particular ideological group!
I don’t know how globalization will create one world governments. Although I do know its helped a number of republics retain their independence, such as Bosnia, Montenegro and Kosovo, if not Taiwan.
Iraq is indeed stupid. Its a case of cultural ignorance and the concept of take down their leader and they will surrender.
A dystopian totalitarian regime may only bring itself to power if society feels threatened by an internal or external force.
@ Rudy
Well you either see one as a stepping stone to the other or you dont. One desires “Big ” government and the other is the result of the same. If the relationship is not apparent then thats that as they say.
I dont know if its cultural ignorance more like stupid under estimation, arrogance and total lack of aptitude for that king of work! You cant arm & train your pets and then be surprised when they bite back. Mind you you can take them to the vet and put thing at least partially right.
Its about degrees like everything else and even the smallest of degrees in the wrong direction can go a very long way over time. It might seem a small thing to some but there are people in power in this country who would see as desirable things that I would deem incremental steps to something akin to “A Brave New World” or “1984” you might not see it or care for that matter but i do and yes I see those people who support those ideas as the enemy naturally !
In the 1984 universe, the government is the one that people ultimately fears, one that has no ideology, except power for the sake of power, that is morally flexible, and held by a cadre of tight-knit Inner Party circles.
Big government makes running of the country possible. This includes the key clerical staff (like customs, centrelink officials, embassy representatives etc.), administration, able to offer counsel for 20 million plus people.
Ultimately, the bigger the inner circle, the less likely it is to hold on to power indefinitely before in-fighting occurs.
@ Rudy
Power for the sake of power or power because they believe their view of the world benefits all whether we want it or not makes no difference though If I had to choose between the power hungry the greedy or the idealistic i would pick either of the first two.
I appreciate the necessary evil of government but my view on its absolute size can best be summed up in a Quote from a great man from another time “Government is best which governs least “
I’m a little late with my post, but this made me feel physically sick. So much hate. I’m finding it hard to comprehend.
TAB has only posted a fraction of the stuff they have. There’s at least a gigabyte of it and more arriving or brought to their attention each day. And it’s not “just” Internet posturing from terminal adolescents either.
Bogans stink and they’re ugly and stupid. They’re either really fat or really skinny, and they never give birth to just one bogan baby at a time, they have litters. Why can’t we just herd them all to gated areas to live on the outskirts of all major cities? Or use have like a ‘bogan solution’ not unlike the Pacific Solution.Then we don’t have to look at them, smell them, or hear their horrible bogan voices (usually talking about their latest court case or how tough they were when they told someone to get fucked) What biological experiment went wrong and produced such a breed anyway?